Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 15, 2009 2:32:25 GMT -5
Hi everyone.
It's time to talk a little about the roles people in the Burg are claiming to have. It's an especially important topic to raise right now considering that a candidate for Sunday's exile claimed a Citizen role and gave details that got her off the hook for a week. We'll need to evaluate her role alongside the rest of her behavior to determine whether or not she's telling the truth.
You may remember a few weeks back after we exiled Paris and I made a fuss about that being the 3rd spy in our original group of 11 and hoping that the rest of us were Cits. And then Sam smacked me with a rolled up newspaper and said "Wishful thinking, sister." Well, regardless, some people decided that they trusted certain people in our group a lot, and spilled role information to us. One thing led to another, and suddenly the whole Burg is bombarding Gabriela, Jason, Ellis, Pete, Tibby, Jenya and Rey with role information.
Now some of the things we know should probably be kept secret, but I think some of this information might help people make better votes. I think some of the roles we've been told could be citizen roles, and some possibly sound like spy roles. If you still have a role and haven't blabbed it to anyone, good for you, that's probably smart. If you don't have a role, be sure not to hint that you don't.. you all know the drill already.
So I think maybe people should post their suggestions about how we should handle the current situation. Should we post roles without the names of the people who hold them? Should we discuss whether particular roles sound like Cit or Spy roles so we don't have to make that decision in the last 5-10 minutes before exile? Obviously, any role that was told to someone in secret will remain secret unless the role's owner wants it made public, and only the details they want known will be made known.
Finally, one important fact I think it's appropriate to share. There's been one thing in common with all the roles we've found out about thus far.. there have been powerups given as a result of the Cits winning the Future Week challenge. Iris has claimed a role that didn't earn a powerup, and that's as good a place as any to begin discussion.
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Post by Ariel on Jun 15, 2009 2:34:58 GMT -5
I've already stated this to Jenya in private, but it seems to me that with the role Iris claimed, it makes sense for her not to have received a power-up.
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Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 15, 2009 7:25:17 GMT -5
I don't know nothin' about nothin'.
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Post by Iris on Jun 15, 2009 8:10:28 GMT -5
Just to repeat here what I already told Jenya and Ariel, I did not receive a powerup because my role was already "spent" on Day One. After I gave my gifts I had no further powers.
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 8:20:54 GMT -5
Conversation with Iris: spies6 rey (9:46:26 PM): why did you lie about your role? spies6 iris (9:49:06 PM): I did not lie about my role. spies6 rey (9:49:32 PM): i used the role investigation on you and it said that you didn't have a role. i'm asking you again, why did you lie about your role? spies6 iris (9:51:02 PM): And I'm telling you again I did not lie about my role. You must have gotten that result because my role is spent. I had to give my three gifts on Day One. If you get a full chat lognyiu will see I said that before you came in. spies6 rey (9:51:27 PM): i was joking, i didn't actually use the role investigation on you. spies6 rey (9:51:28 PM):  spies6 rey (9:51:57 PM): explain to me your entire role so i can see if it makes sense, is balanced. i want role name and everything. spies6 iris (9:52:02 PM): Okay...  spies6 iris (9:56:25 PM): Sorry,okay was to previous message. spies6 rey (9:56:34 PM): i know that. spies6 iris (9:56:43 PM): Role was anonymous benefactor. spies6 iris (9:57:37 PM): In day one I got 3 gifts to give people. I wouldn't know if they were Cit or Spy so it was dangerous. spies6 iris (10:00:17 PM): One gift was a role block. One gift was the ability to read a post from someone's confessional. Final gift was one immunity from Imp. spies6 rey (10:02:01 PM): which gift did you give to callahan and which gift to donald? spies6 iris (10:02:44 PM): Callahan got roleblock, Donald got to read. spies6 rey (10:02:56 PM): awesome. spies6 rey (10:03:00 PM): just awesome. spies6 iris (10:03:11 PM): ? spies6 rey (10:03:14 PM): were they alerted that they had the gift? spies6 iris (10:03:38 PM): Yes, but not that I gave it. spies6 rey (10:04:10 PM): when did you have to give the gifts? RIGHT before the game started, RIGHT when the game started, or the DAY the game started at any time? spies6 rey (10:05:16 PM): did you tell anyone about this role and/or drop any crumbs that would later give your claim some more believeable-ness? spies6 rey (10:05:50 PM): can the person with the imprisonment save protect themselves? spies6 iris (10:06:16 PM): The day the game started but I had to give them out right away. I had to notify Sam when I got the PM and tell him immediately. spies6 rey (10:06:19 PM): i don't see why the person with the final gift SHOULDN'T claim, so why don't you tell us who the third person is so that we can confirm your role? spies6 iris (10:07:02 PM): The imprisonment save is foe that person. I gave it to Amelia, when she uses it she MUST save herself. spies6 iris (10:07:15 PM): *for spies6 rey (10:07:31 PM): alright, so i can ask her and she WILL confirm that she got it, right? spies6 iris (10:08:09 PM): Yes. spies6 rey (10:08:14 PM): alright. spies6 rey (10:08:28 PM): spies6rey (10:05:16 PM): did you tell anyone about this role and/or drop any crumbs that would later give your claim some more believeable-ness? spies6 iris (10:09:36 PM): Sorry, I forgot to answer that. No, the only thing that could be considered breadcrumbing was me pressing Callahan about if he had a role he should claim. spies6 rey (10:10:36 PM): i see. spies6 iris (10:12:04 PM): I was afraid because if I accidentally gave it to a spy, which I did, as it turns out, and they figured out it was me, bad news. spies6 rey (10:12:19 PM): haha. spies6 rey (10:12:26 PM): you gave the worst possible one to a spy. spies6 rey (10:12:33 PM): and i still don't believe your role. spies6 iris (10:13:45 PM): Yes. I suck. Well, I can't do very much about it, I can't prove anything except that I gave it to Amelia
One major thing that stands out in my mind is the fact that Sam specifically said on multiple ocassions that only ourselves and him would be able to read our confessionals. Not only that, but he would not be able to control the time that Iris sent her PM in with her choices. Therefore, she would be able to speak with the individuals briefly. Why would he put a role that could be worked against easily?
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 15, 2009 9:29:32 GMT -5
I have a few questions. Starting with:
1) Were the gifts were used by Donald and Callahan? If so, how did you know they were used?
2) Assuming that giving three gifts at the start of the game was the only power of your role, why didn't you tell Callahan, Donald and Amelia that you gave them the gifts?
3) Why did you wait until this time to publicly claim this role? There doesn't seem to be any benefit of hiding it this long.
4) Did you ask Sam why you didn't get a powerup after the Future Week Challenge win?
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Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 15, 2009 10:09:30 GMT -5
Didn't she also say in the main chat that the imprisonment immunity and the role block were the ones that were used?
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Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 15, 2009 10:13:11 GMT -5
9:45:54 PM Iris: One of them was an immunity. One of them was an ability to roleblock. And the third, I"m not sure I should say yet because I don't know if it's been used.
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Post by Iris on Jun 15, 2009 11:10:02 GMT -5
Rey, to answer your question...yes, you caught me in a lie. Part of the requirements of the role were that I not be allowed to tell the whole story of my role. If I revealed information, I had to purposely make some of it a lie-- a lie I would be relatively easily caught in. I told this lie to both Levi and Rey last night.
The part about Donald being able to read confessionals is the lie I would be easily caught in. In effect my role is kind of like the Miller in Mafia in a way. It's a detriment to the Citizens...if I claim I look like instant Spy. Which is to answer one of your questions, too, Jenya...I didn't say a word because I didn't want to have to claim. Haven't you guys thought that 6 Spies plus 1 Paris was a bit unbalanced?
What I actually gave Donald was the ability to switch a vote in an Exile where he was one of the top 3 candidates. That was the Yvette exile...he switched my vote and Yvette flipped Cit.
I hate this game, I feel like Cassandra, I'm doomed to not be believed because all of this stuff played out so crazily.
As for me getting my role on Day One, Sam gave me mine first because the powers I gave might overpower other power roles...in other words, if I gave the roleblock to someone who he gave a roleblocking role too, they might become too powerful. I believe that he waited to assign the rest of the roles until Day Two for that reason.
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Post by Iris on Jun 15, 2009 11:11:09 GMT -5
And Jenya, I think I've answered your other questions, but I did ask Sam at the time of the powerup IF I would get a role recharge. He said no, that my role was already spent.
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Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 15, 2009 11:16:38 GMT -5
Rey, to answer your question...yes, you caught me in a lie. Part of the requirements of the role were that I not be allowed to tell the whole story of my role. If I revealed information, I had to purposely make some of it a lie-- a lie I would be relatively easily caught in. I told this lie to both Levi and Rey last night. The part about Donald being able to read confessionals is the lie I would be easily caught in. In effect my role is kind of like the Miller in Mafia in a way. It's a detriment to the Citizens...if I claim I look like instant Spy. Which is to answer one of your questions, too, Jenya...I didn't say a word because I didn't want to have to claim. Haven't you guys thought that 6 Spies plus 1 Paris was a bit unbalanced? What I actually gave Donald was the ability to switch a vote in an Exile where he was one of the top 3 candidates. That was the Yvette exile...he switched my vote and Yvette flipped Cit. I hate this game, I feel like Cassandra, I'm doomed to not be believed because all of this stuff played out so crazily. As for me getting my role on Day One, Sam gave me mine first because the powers I gave might overpower other power roles...in other words, if I gave the roleblock to someone who he gave a roleblocking role too, they might become too powerful. I believe that he waited to assign the rest of the roles until Day Two for that reason. I don't believe one bit that Sam would make that stipulation about you having to lie. He hates using rules that are not enforceable and there is no way he would be able to enforce that. And I absolutely do not believe that your vote was changed by Donald and you didn't say a thing about it. |
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Post by Thor on Jun 15, 2009 11:33:25 GMT -5
iris.
1) why would you give donald this power?
2) why did you even bother claiming?
3) how would donald know that he ws one of the top 3 candidates, and therefore, that he could switch a vote?
until now i was pretty sure you were a citizen, but now i'm pretty sure you aren't.
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Post by Iris on Jun 15, 2009 11:46:44 GMT -5
Boris, how is that not enforceable? I had to show him a chat log where I lied. I suppose I could tell people and hope Sam didn't find out about it, but that's not likely.
If I said something about Donald changing my vote I'd have to claim my role. As you can see I was very reluctant to do it...this role sucks and I knew this would happen when I did claim.
Thor, I explained why I gave Donald the power in the chat last night before my comp died, but I had to give out the roles before I really got to know people. I was meta-gaming; I figured Sam would not make someone with a so-obviously Spy-looking photo a Spy.
I claimed to save my ass, because I know I'm a Citizen. This information will be useful down the road...I'm probably going to die anyway...I don't expect anyone will believe me, I wouldn't believe me if I didn't know it was true. But having it out in the open now will be useful later.
Donald wouldn't KNOW for sure he was one of the top candidates, but if he suspected he was, he could use the "gift." If he turned out he was wrong, the gift was lost.
Thor, seriously, I don't expect you to believe me...it just sucks having this role, it's as bad as being a Miller. I expect I'll be Exiled this week...all I ask is that when I flip Cit, you all look at who gave me the hardest time about this.
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 13:19:20 GMT -5
Rey, to answer your question...yes, you caught me in a lie. Part of the requirements of the role were that I not be allowed to tell the whole story of my role. If I revealed information, I had to purposely make some of it a lie-- a lie I would be relatively easily caught in. I told this lie to both Levi and Rey last night. What was the point of you claiming? Couldn't you justdefend yourself like a normal player? If you knew you would be caught in the lie, what would be the point of claiming? Just to make yourself more suspicious? I have a feeling that I caught you in an actual lie and this is some gambit of yours. The part about Donald being able to read confessionals is the lie I would be easily caught in. In effect my role is kind of like the Miller in Mafia in a way. It's a detriment to the Citizens...if I claim I look like instant Spy. Which is to answer one of your questions, too, Jenya...I didn't say a word because I didn't want to have to claim. Haven't you guys thought that 6 Spies plus 1 Paris was a bit unbalanced? So because the game is balanced in favour of the spies, Sam gave us a role that will be extremely suspicious to give the spies a free mis-exile? What I actually gave Donald was the ability to switch a vote in an Exile where he was one of the top 3 candidates. That was the Yvette exile...he switched my vote and Yvette flipped Cit. How would he know he was getting voted? How do you know he switched your vote? It would make sense that you were jailed afterwards, but how do you know that your vote was switched and why didn't you claim so before you were jailed? |
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 13:22:49 GMT -5
This is horrible reasoning. You like to lose the game for us, yes?
If you actually are a citizen, then the spies would be the ones believing you.
They would know your claim is true, while on the other hand the citizens wouldn't.
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Post by Iris on Jun 15, 2009 14:31:55 GMT -5
Rey, to answer your question...yes, you caught me in a lie. Part of the requirements of the role were that I not be allowed to tell the whole story of my role. If I revealed information, I had to purposely make some of it a lie-- a lie I would be relatively easily caught in. I told this lie to both Levi and Rey last night. What was the point of you claiming? Couldn't you just defend yourself like a normal player? If you knew you would be caught in the lie, what would be the point of claiming? Just to make yourself more suspicious? I have a feeling that I caught you in an actual lie and this is some gambit of yours. So because the game is balanced in favour of the spies, Sam gave us a role that will be extremely suspicious to give the spies a free mis-exile? What I actually gave Donald was the ability to switch a vote in an Exile where he was one of the top 3 candidates. That was the Yvette exile...he switched my vote and Yvette flipped Cit. How would he know he was getting voted? How do you know he switched your vote? It would make sense that you were jailed afterwards, but how do you know that your vote was switched and why didn't you claim so before you were jailed? Rey, I've defended myself as best as I could as a "normal person" and virtually no one believes a word I say. It's not a gambit at all, but again, it sucks and I don't expect you to believe me. I'm not creative enough to make up something like this on the spot...but I wouldn't believe me either if I didn't know it was true. I claimed to save my butt and to give ya'll information that will help further down the road. I said this before-- I don't think claiming will save me in the long run, it just makes me look suspicious, but when I flip Cit, having this information will give ya'll a lot of data. My balance comment was an incomplete thought. I'm upset as hell now that I can't get on AIM properly and defend myself. My role I think balances out Paris. Paris could help the Spies depending on how well he played his role...as it turned out, he played it poorly and it didn't help them at all. My role would help Citizens IF I chose wisely and was unable to avoid claiming. And I didn't mention Donald switching my vote (which I found out at the time it was switched, just before Exile) because to do so, I'd have to explain all of this...God, people, can you see what an albatross this role is? |
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Post by Iris on Jun 15, 2009 14:42:40 GMT -5
Okay, Jenya, you asked me something and I can't find the question now so I'm replying from memory. I can't post chat logs, they're on my laptop. However, if someone posts the Exile chat from last night you'll see what prompted me to claim. It was Kirsten, Ellis and Khaled naming me as top suspects. Kirsten and Ellis didn't give reasons until I asked them, which made it highly likely to me that some Spy was going around telling tales about me and trying to orchestrate a pileup on me. If I panicked, so be it. I knew my time on the laptop battery was limited and I felt I was in serious danger. Quite a few people have had me on their suspects lists for a while now.
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Post by Thor on Jun 15, 2009 15:17:07 GMT -5
This is horrible reasoning. You like to lose the game for us, yes? If you actually are a citizen, then the spies would be the ones believing you. They would know your claim is true, while on the other hand the citizens wouldn't. holy wifom, batman. |
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Post by Ellis on Jun 15, 2009 16:43:29 GMT -5
No your confessional is 100% private between you and me no one else will see any part of it until the game is over. Conversation with Iris:spies6 iris (10:00:17 PM): One gift was a role block. One gift was the ability to read a post from someone's confessional. Final gift was one immunity from Imp. Do I really need to explain this one? |
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Post by Thor on Jun 15, 2009 17:04:59 GMT -5
she explained. that was a lie.
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Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 15, 2009 17:09:15 GMT -5
And I didn't mention Donald switching my vote (which I found out at the time it was switched, just before Exile) because to do so, I'd have to explain all of this...God, people, can you see what an albatross this role is? Seeing as it was given anonymously, you wouldn't have had to claim, you could just say that your vote was changed. |
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Post by Ellis on Jun 15, 2009 17:15:27 GMT -5
she explained. that was a lie. Crap. And I thought I was doing so well until I read that. I fail.  |
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Post by Georgia on Jun 15, 2009 17:15:57 GMT -5
So Donald used this vote changing power on you.
You were notified.
So you last minute changed your vote.
I smell shit of a bull.
Why do you get notified when a power is used?
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 17:16:30 GMT -5
Rey, I've defended myself as best as I could as a normal person and virtually no one believes a word I say. Why do you think this? ...but when I flip Cit, having this information will give ya'll a lot of data. Who said we were exiling you? And I didn't mention Donald switching my vote (which I found out at the time it was switched, just before Exile) because to do so, I'd have to explain all of this...God, people, can you see what an albatross this role is? I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but that doesn't mean I can't question you, does it? |
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 17:17:39 GMT -5
No. The power made her have to change her vote to whatever he wants.
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Post by Georgia on Jun 15, 2009 17:26:35 GMT -5
Rey? I didn't say or imply otherwise.
Donald was holding the Power, no?
She was notified by... Sam that she had to change her vote to Yvette?
So she made a big scene about it?
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 17:34:53 GMT -5
She was notified because the power was used on her, I would assume.
Let's say Donald used the power on you. I would think that you would be notified as well.
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 15, 2009 17:41:52 GMT -5
So this is the "Iris tacks on increasingly more ridiculous and unbelievable additions to her claim in an attempt to cover the holes in it" thread. It's a good read.
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Post by Amelia on Jun 15, 2009 17:50:01 GMT -5
Just to repeat here what I already told Jenya and Ariel, I did not receive a powerup because my role was already "spent" on Day One. After I gave my gifts I had no further powers. That was you, huh? I wondered... I actually was confused at first when Sam told me. I thought everyone got a one-shot immunity they could use. Luckily I asked him about it before accidentally revealing due to my ignorance. I don't know why you chose me, but thanks! I'll leave it up in the air as to whether I've used it, but let's just say I haven't felt in danger of Imprisonment just yet. |
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 17:54:07 GMT -5
See, Iris' claim has now been confirmed. The only way she is lying is if Amelia and her are both spies. I don't think Iris is a spy, but Amelia could be one. I'll leave it up in the air as to whether I've used it, but let's just say I haven't felt in danger of Imprisonment just yet. That kind of gives the answer away. |
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