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Post by Khaled on Jun 14, 2009 5:04:24 GMT -5
Looking at the thread title, it sounds like a terrible Christian alternative rock band name. Okay ladies. Here's the situation. Currently, you're simultaneous driving yourselves off the exile cliff. Iris--Yeah, I'm still on your back. You should know the charges against you by now, but to put them up again, you had a particularly WIFOMy defense in regards to your little "group" from Ep.1, you have 0 spy votes (even though you missed the last one), your level of contribution towards any spyhunting in general is lacking, etc etc. Faith--We've got the voting history, the lack of spyhunting, this little tidbit: [19:27] spies6khaled: like, anything at all that would give you cit points? [19:28] spies6Faith: Well I know I've made many mistakes and a few unlucky choices (putting Levi 4th, Donald 5th for example) but I've been doing my best to spy hunt. I've been trying to make connections for who could be spies with the eliminated spies. [19:28] spies6Faith: For instance, I think William could be one because of how he voted for Donald twice when it didn't matter, but not when he did ...... [19:38] spies6khaled: And who are you planning on voting for? [19:38] spies6Faith: At the moment William [19:38] spies6Faith: I think it's a highly likely spy connection And this, in general, is the issue. I'll take a moment here to step away from you in specific to point something out. People, when you say that "Someone did X here, it seems like a spy thing to do," you make two problematic conclusions. First, you give analysis in hindsight of new information without considering the initial viewpoint. By this, I mean that you avoid thinking about the situation in which the vote was cast. I'm not saying that you shouldn't apply new information--certainly. But you can't discard old information either. Keep in mind, also, that last episode's vote could almost just as easily gone onto Levi, who wasn't looking to stellar in his own right. With no further information to go on right now, I'm going to assume that William is a cit because of the two Donald votes, even though he didn't get lynched when either of them happened. The second problem, of which I'm seeing ALOT of, is confirmation bias. Rather than taking a look at the entire spectrum of a player's actions (the entire data set), many of you are trying to shove the data into your own theory about the player. Stop it. I'm not saying I'm perfect about this, but I do hope that in the event I make either error, someone points it out. Back to Faith now--anytime someone tries to pull a "I think X is suspicious due to Y," and it has an error like that, I get concerned. Then, when asked for other suspicions: [19:33] spies6khaled: regardless, who do you suspect? [19:33] spies6khaled: besides william, as you stated [19:35] spies6Faith: Boris for his lack of burg posting till this round. Mirela for the reasons I stated last round (pretty much she doesn't seem to be spy hunting to me, she gets overly diffesnive and so on) Those aren't "reasons." Several other players hadn't been posting extensively until this round, like William and Ellis. Mirela's got a different set of things that you can pick on, but "not spyhunting" isn't something I've seen--she's got an idea which may or may not be correct, and she's pursuing it pretty hard. And--yet another quick aside here--nobody can get "overly" defensive. No player in their right mind wants to get lynched*. This is in direct contrast to the type of resignation you seem to give. What am I supposed to do with a defense like that? Say "Oh, well, you seem rather ambivalent about this whole thing, so I won't vote you."? Give me reasons now. If you're a citizen, I want to know what makes you such. I know I had some other things to add but can't remember them right now, and I'm not sure about the whole clarity of the above thing, it being 5am and me being really tired, so bear with me if there's gaps in clarity. I'll come back and fix it/add to it after I sleep. *Jesters don't count. They're not in their right mind. That means you, Kirsten. |
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 14, 2009 6:02:22 GMT -5
I'm not a jester. I'm also not in my right mind. I'm afraid I don't know what that makes me.
I call lead vocals in "About Iris & Faith"
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Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 14, 2009 8:41:35 GMT -5
If Kirsten is a Jester then I'm an astronaut.
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Post by Khaled on Jun 14, 2009 12:54:16 GMT -5
Wouldn't you be a COSMOnaut, Boris?
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Roxy
Roxy
Dead Queen Bitch.
Posts: 50
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Post by Roxy on Jun 14, 2009 13:33:00 GMT -5
I think he would be a SPYonaut, actually.  |
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Post by Ellis on Jun 14, 2009 16:28:39 GMT -5
I think it's possible one of Faith and Iris are a spy. They've acted and voted so much alike to my mind that I doubt both is, which worries me. If there's a lot of people who I suspect suggesting one of them is a spy, it makes me think that perhaps the other one is.
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Faith
Faith
Daddy's Dead Princess
Posts: 78
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Post by Faith on Jun 14, 2009 19:20:41 GMT -5
Hey people sorry I haven’t been on today. I just moved into my new house, haven’t even unpacked yet!
Anyways, Hey Khaled. I’ll first address this point. No player in their right mind wants to get lynched*. This is in direct contrast to the type of resignation you seem to give. What am I supposed to do with a defense like that? Say "Oh, well, you seem rather ambivalent about this whole thing, so I won't vote you."? Give me reasons now. If you're a citizen, I want to know what makes you such.
The way I’m taking this exile is this. I realize I’m suspicious, I realize I could very well be exiled and I’m fine with that. To me if I started talking to everyone and said ‘oh please please please I’m a citizen don’t vote me! You should vote for this person instead blah blah blah’ it just sounds desperate and if I’m not mistaken that’s exactly what Callahan did and that’s why you ended up voting for him ultimately. I don’t have anything to worry about because the citizens are in a great position this game with exiling 3.5 spies in four exiles.
I’m a suspect in people’s eyes. If I’m gone they’ll have one less suspect out of their heads and lots more information to work with. I don’t want to be exiled so I’m giving people my thoughts and if they want to agree with me, I’ll be ecstatic but I’m not going to get desperate and I’m not going to get all prissy and pissed off that I could be the one to go. It doesn’t help any situation.
You want to know why I’m a citizen so here goes. I realize I was off to a slow start this game, which was a combination of being unsure of myself and what to do, being extremely busy and having AIM problems. However, I’m not afraid to give my thoughts on people. Every round who I’m voting for has been posted in the burg in some form and even this round I was the second person that I can see that posted my suspicions and thoughts of everyone in the burg. I’m not afraid to say I think this person is a citizen, or I think this person is a spy. My thoughts are easily attainable.
You might not think I’m spy hunting but I am, which I will now address this point. People, when you say that "Someone did X here, it seems like a spy thing to do," you make two problematic conclusions. First, you give analysis in hindsight of new information without considering the initial viewpoint. By this, I mean that you avoid thinking about the situation in which the vote was cast. I'm not saying that you shouldn't apply new information--certainly. But you can't discard old information either. Keep in mind, also, that last episode's vote could almost just as easily gone onto Levi, who wasn't looking to stellar in his own right. With no further information to go on right now, I'm going to assume that William is a cit because of the two Donald votes, even though he didn't get lynched when either of them happened. The second problem, of which I'm seeing ALOT of, is confirmation bias. Rather than taking a look at the entire spectrum of a player's actions (the entire data set), many of you are trying to shove the data into your own theory about the player. Stop it. I'm not saying I'm perfect about this, but I do hope that in the event I make either error, someone points it out.
In terms of William my reasons for thinking he is a spy with Donald is not just because he voted for Donald twice when it didn’t count, and when Donald was finally exiled he voted for Levi. It’s because Donald magically dropped from his suspicions entirely with no notice. He went from suspecting Donald #1 two rounds ago when he voted for Donald, to not mentioning Donald AT ALL in his suspicions. He made a post about suspecting other people instead. No mention of Donald at all. THAT is what raises red flags that he was trying to help Donald out. Before that I had seen very little from William and I felt he lurked on the boards. I kept forgetting he was in the game. PLUS if you read my post in the exile thread there are many people who I think are citizens so I’m not voting for them. William is not in that list of citizens. So yeah. It’s not just because he voted Donald twice.
So, yeah. One way I’m looking for spies is by looking for possible connections between players. Who’s defending who, who votes together, who says one thing about someone but quickly changes their mind when that person is in trouble. Things like that. I also research people's posts a lot. I look back and confirm people's stories or try to find errors in their stories as well another way that I'm spy hunting.
When I can get on AIM I feel like I’m very open. You ask me a question, I’ll respond to the best of my ability with reasoning and my opinions. I don’t have anything to hide so you get my honest answer. It’s not hard to get me to say who I’m suspecting; you don’t have to pull at teeth or whatever that saying is. I felt at the start of this round that no one thought I was ever a citizen or at least no one said it in public in the burg. People who talk to me I feel are kind of going ‘I’m not convinced 100% that Faith is a spy now’ and I really think it’s because they finally have been able to really talk to me on AIM. I realize it’s my fault for not being on much but I feel the way I approach situations and how I answer questions and being open in chat makes me a citizen. Those aren't "reasons." Several other players hadn't been posting extensively until this round, like William and Ellis. Mirela's got a different set of things that you can pick on, but "not spyhunting" isn't something I've seen--she's got an idea which may or may not be correct, and she's pursuing it pretty hard.
Perhaps you’ve seen something different from Mirela in the burg. I have no clue what she thinks about anyone in this game besides the fact that she’s certain I’m a spy because of the Robert/Yvette situation and that Levi used to be a desperate spy and now is a desperate citizen. I know nothing else and don’t know what else she has been doing in this game. She even told Levi that time ‘I don’t know who to suspect but Faith’ that doesn’t sound like someone who spy hunts to me.
So you might not think those are reasons but I find it suspicious and they are reasons to me.
And... I think that's it. If I missed anything or you want to ask something lemme know!
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Post by Iris on Jun 14, 2009 19:43:20 GMT -5
I'm a girl drummer for real, so I call drums.  Khaled, your accusations against me are kind of unfair because there's no real defense to them. My voting record is what it is but I'm not the only one here who didn't vote a Spy. It sucks that I got Jailed last week, because I would have voted Donald, but I can't prove that to you either. As for not contributing, I'm doing the best I can. Maybe I can contribute best by getting Exiled, when I flip Cit it will give y'all some leads on who persecuted me. |
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 15, 2009 12:23:55 GMT -5
Can we use this thread right now to track the vote changes yesterday? I believe Kirsten wanted William for a while, and after talking to William around 3PM, decided to switch to Iris.
I imagine Ellis and Kirsten talked, because soon after it seems that Ellis changed his vote to Iris.
Rey found William suspect in the morning, then changed his mind around 2PM, and I think he switched to Iris but it would be good to confirm that. And I believe Rey switched back off Iris when she claimed?
I believe Khaled also considered switching his vote to Iris, not sure if he ever did. And he too was convinced to back off by the claim.
Who else shifted votes in the hours before exile Sunday? Or did Iris claim because Kirsten and Ellis were voting her? Iris, who convinced you to claim and who tipped you off that you might be in danger, and what time did that happen? Can you please post us the snippet?
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Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 15, 2009 12:42:13 GMT -5
Rey switched to William in the end.
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Post by Thor on Jun 15, 2009 12:50:44 GMT -5
i was on faith from saturday morning on.
note that rey was pretty firmly saying that william was a citizen prior to this exile.
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 13:04:34 GMT -5
Rey found William suspect in the morning, then changed his mind around 2PM, and I think he switched to Iris but it would be good to confirm that. And I believe Rey switched back off Iris when she claimed? I switched before she claimed. I said in the Burg somewhere that William would be my final vote. No, he just wanted Faith-citizen to be exiled before Iris to further his goal. |
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 13:07:16 GMT -5
note that rey was pretty firmly saying that william was a citizen prior to this exile. You know I like you Thor, but please don't say things without getting the facts straight. I constantly switched my view on William before the exile. His reaction, as I stated many times, seemed citizen-like to me at the time. I'm still thinking about him, but I definitely never thought about voting Faith this exile. I did not like Iris-exile with her last minute claim, and I did not like Faith-exile since she was obviously a citizen. Mirela-exile couldn't be done at the time, and Amelia-exile didn't have enough support. |
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 15, 2009 16:35:35 GMT -5
Can we use this thread right now to track the vote changes yesterday? I believe Kirsten wanted William for a while, and after talking to William around 3PM, decided to switch to Iris. I imagine Ellis and Kirsten talked, because soon after it seems that Ellis changed his vote to Iris. I didn't talk on AIM with William yesterday, although we did communicate via PM. Ellis and I did talk about our votes, and both decided to vote Iris. |
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Post by Ellis on Jun 15, 2009 16:50:07 GMT -5
Can we use this thread right now to track the vote changes yesterday? I believe Kirsten wanted William for a while, and after talking to William around 3PM, decided to switch to Iris. I imagine Ellis and Kirsten talked, because soon after it seems that Ellis changed his vote to Iris. I didn't talk on AIM with William yesterday, although we did communicate via PM. Ellis and I did talk about our votes, and both decided to vote Iris. Did we? I didn't make up my mind who to vote until well after Iris's role claim. In fact, I seem to remember this: (22:08:04) Kirsten: well, I think Fiath is no more (22:08:10) Kirsten: I believe she is a citizen (22:08:17) Kirsten: but I hope to god I'm wrong (22:08:29) Ellis: I didn't vote until two minuets before exile (22:08:39) Ellis: I only made up my mind at that point (22:08:48) Ellis: So let's see how it goes... (22:08:59) Kirsten: who did you vote? or shall I wait and find out? (22:09:04) Kirsten: I just stuck with my Iris vote (22:09:06) Ellis: IT IS A MYSTERY. (22:09:09) Kirsten: haha, ok (22:09:15) Kirsten: Kirsten, by Ellis (22:09:20) Kirsten: *shakes head* |
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 17:12:36 GMT -5
She said you guys talked about your votes, not that she made you vote Iris.
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 15, 2009 17:38:52 GMT -5
She said you guys talked about your votes, not that she made you vote Iris. Well, actually, Ellis is right, but I guess he forgot about this: spies6ellis (4:53:38 PM): OK spies6ellis (4:54:04 PM): I'll go with Iris |
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Post by Khaled on Jun 15, 2009 18:04:34 GMT -5
No, he just wanted Faith-citizen to be exiled before Iris to further his goal. Yes, Rey. Clearly, you must have perfect knowledge about the system here in Spies 6, including every player's true identities and motivations. To the original comment, yes, I was considering Iris, and was quite literally about to vote her until she claimed. Generally speaking, in a situation like that, I would almost always vote for the person that the claimant is running against to avoid the risk of exiling a player that has more information. In a worst case scenario, where the claimant yields little, if anything, or extraordinarily sketchy information (as in now), we can still remove them the following day. The exception to this policy is in a lynch-or-lose situation or when drawing unnervingly close to a lynch-or-lose situation. |
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 15, 2009 18:07:39 GMT -5
The exception to this policy is in a lynch-or-lose situation or when drawing unnervingly close to a lynch-or-lose situation. Let's hope we never get close to this situation. |
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Belle <3
