Post by Judge Sam on Jun 3, 2009 18:05:09 GMT -5
The following is a partial transcript from the second Union meeting. To read the first transcript click here.
"So at the last meeting, we decided to use different voting systems to decide who to Exile. We decided that maybe the standard voting system wasn't good enough. Our goal is to find the perfect voting system - the ultimate system that combines everybody's individual feelings and from this collection of feelings selects exactly one person who the group feels is most likely a Spy."
"That's correct. That's why we tried out the +/- voting system. And how did that turn out?"
"Well, if you recall, the reason why we used the +/- voting system was that the normal system was too 'negative.' It focused too much on who people thought were Spies rather than who they thought were Citizens. If 50% of voters thought Carl was a Citizen, but had different opinions on who they thought was a Spy, they couldn't stop 40% of voters who thought Carl was a Spy. That is, unless they effectively 'lied' about who they really thought was the Spy. By 'lied' I mean they didn't necessarily vote for their total overall #1 Spy suspicion each time. This led to gaming the system."
"Yeah, I remember that."
"So the idea was to balance that out. Yes we have the voting who is a Spy part, but we also have the voting who is a Citizen part. The plan was that this would cancel things out and make a great voting system."
"Yep. So we found the perfect voting system first try then eh?"
"Far from it! The +/- voting system didn't cancel out the bad parts of the normal voting system, it just made it twice as worse!!! We already had the + part which is the normal part. In this part people already lie about their true Spy suspicions because either others suspect someone with a lot of votes, or they want to save other people who they think might be Citizens.
This system had all of this bad stuff plus another chunk of it with the minus system! People were not using their minus vote on who they really thought was the most Citizen like. They were using it just to get whoever they wanted out. They might give their minus vote to people who they thought were neutral or even Spy-ish if they were more sure their + vote was going to a Spy. Instead of just one layer of deceit this system brought in two layers."
"Oh. Yeah that wasn't the plan."
"It wasn't at all. So I'm trying to figure out what went wrong here."
"Well, you said people were not voting their true #1 suspect due to the effects of others. Maybe we can force people to vote their #1 suspect?"
"Uh... you can't just do that. You can't instruct voters how to cast their vote. Voters are going to cast their vote in a way which is most advantageous for them. A way in which they make their vote the most worthwhile. And that's a good thing, everyone should try and use their vote to the best of their ability. That's all the power most Citizens have in this game - their vote."
"But I guess the question is - why don't people just vote the way they feel?"
"Well that's where this new voting system comes into play! The reason why people don't vote their #1 suspect every time is that because that's a waste. It's a wasted vote. If you knew no one else was going to vote for Sandy, why would you vote for Sandy? It's completely pointless. Your vote won't change the outcome. Whereas if you know the vote is currently close, and could go either way, your vote *could* change the outcome. That means your vote would matter. If you throw it away at Sandy you might as well not have voted at all. And remember we said the only power most citizens have in this game is their vote."
"That's so true. So how would you come up with a system in which their wouldn't be any wasted votes?"
"Well, it's actually pretty simple..."
"So at the last meeting, we decided to use different voting systems to decide who to Exile. We decided that maybe the standard voting system wasn't good enough. Our goal is to find the perfect voting system - the ultimate system that combines everybody's individual feelings and from this collection of feelings selects exactly one person who the group feels is most likely a Spy."
"That's correct. That's why we tried out the +/- voting system. And how did that turn out?"
"Well, if you recall, the reason why we used the +/- voting system was that the normal system was too 'negative.' It focused too much on who people thought were Spies rather than who they thought were Citizens. If 50% of voters thought Carl was a Citizen, but had different opinions on who they thought was a Spy, they couldn't stop 40% of voters who thought Carl was a Spy. That is, unless they effectively 'lied' about who they really thought was the Spy. By 'lied' I mean they didn't necessarily vote for their total overall #1 Spy suspicion each time. This led to gaming the system."
"Yeah, I remember that."
"So the idea was to balance that out. Yes we have the voting who is a Spy part, but we also have the voting who is a Citizen part. The plan was that this would cancel things out and make a great voting system."
"Yep. So we found the perfect voting system first try then eh?"
"Far from it! The +/- voting system didn't cancel out the bad parts of the normal voting system, it just made it twice as worse!!! We already had the + part which is the normal part. In this part people already lie about their true Spy suspicions because either others suspect someone with a lot of votes, or they want to save other people who they think might be Citizens.
This system had all of this bad stuff plus another chunk of it with the minus system! People were not using their minus vote on who they really thought was the most Citizen like. They were using it just to get whoever they wanted out. They might give their minus vote to people who they thought were neutral or even Spy-ish if they were more sure their + vote was going to a Spy. Instead of just one layer of deceit this system brought in two layers."
"Oh. Yeah that wasn't the plan."
"It wasn't at all. So I'm trying to figure out what went wrong here."
"Well, you said people were not voting their true #1 suspect due to the effects of others. Maybe we can force people to vote their #1 suspect?"
"Uh... you can't just do that. You can't instruct voters how to cast their vote. Voters are going to cast their vote in a way which is most advantageous for them. A way in which they make their vote the most worthwhile. And that's a good thing, everyone should try and use their vote to the best of their ability. That's all the power most Citizens have in this game - their vote."
"But I guess the question is - why don't people just vote the way they feel?"
"Well that's where this new voting system comes into play! The reason why people don't vote their #1 suspect every time is that because that's a waste. It's a wasted vote. If you knew no one else was going to vote for Sandy, why would you vote for Sandy? It's completely pointless. Your vote won't change the outcome. Whereas if you know the vote is currently close, and could go either way, your vote *could* change the outcome. That means your vote would matter. If you throw it away at Sandy you might as well not have voted at all. And remember we said the only power most citizens have in this game is their vote."
"That's so true. So how would you come up with a system in which their wouldn't be any wasted votes?"
"Well, it's actually pretty simple..."