Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 12, 2009 15:53:35 GMT -5
[18:00] spies6Roxy: who did you vote for? [18:00] spies6Roxy: mirela?? [18:00] spies6Boris: ed [18:00] spies6Roxy: wtf [18:00] spies6Boris: but then that went away [18:00] spies6Roxy: why ed? [18:00] spies6Boris: so then donald [18:00] spies6Boris: why not ed? [18:01] spies6Boris: i was obviously following up on levi's thoughts [18:01] spies6Boris: since i trust levi [18:01] spies6Roxy: um thats bandwagon[18:01] spies6Boris: thought donald came in at number two [18:01] spies6Boris: good for me[18:01] spies6Roxy: did you even have any suspicion of your own against ed [18:01] spies6Boris: not until they were pointed out to me [18:01] spies6Boris: since i had never talked to him until that night [18:01] spies6Boris: or the night before [18:01] spies6Boris: i'm not too sure on that one [18:02] spies6Boris: night before [18:02] spies6Boris: mirela and jenya were no longer at the top of the list thought [18:02] spies6Boris: though [18:03] spies6Roxy: how did they change in like 2 hours [18:03] spies6Boris: mirela came online [18:03] spies6Boris: and cleared up the internet connection issue that everyone was using to justify voting for her [18:03] spies6Boris: since i think jenya and mirela are tied together, and since that placed mirela down on the list, i naturally moved jenya as well [18:04] spies6Roxy: why do you think their together? [18:05] spies6Boris: because jenya has told me she really thinks mirela is a citizen, and then went on to defend her a lot/ suggested they workd together on things in the "Bad Vibrations" thread [18:06] spies6Roxy: hm...that doesnt necess. mean they both have the same allignment just because she said that[18:06] spies6Boris: true, but i still think it [18:08] spies6Roxy: ok then [18:08] spies6Boris: fine Isn't that weird? Yes, it is weird. I'm glad you provided your insightful commentary on why it's weird, so that people can then respond to what you think, and would give me a better idea of what it is that I should be defending myself against.
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Boris
Boris
Idle Piece of Shit
Posts: 50
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Post by Boris on Jun 12, 2009 15:56:46 GMT -5
Also, I'm going to jet and won't be back until Sunday morning, where I fully expect to be the numero uno target in this burg for exile, given the way we like get rid of absent players in this here burg.
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 12, 2009 15:59:58 GMT -5
Also, I'm going to jet and won't be back until Sunday morning, where I fully expect to be the numero uno target in this burg for exile, given the way we like get rid of absent players in this here burg. Levi is absent as well. With no voting twist, we sadly will be unable to get rid of both of you this exile. It would have been a fitting end to the Levi/Boris connection.
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Roxy
Roxy
Dead Queen Bitch.
Posts: 50
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Post by Roxy on Jun 12, 2009 16:48:46 GMT -5
I updated that post, FYI, Boris.
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Post by Georgia on Jun 12, 2009 17:01:12 GMT -5
Boris, you are scheduled for Exile #8. You can't steal Levi's place for this Exile.
Pfft. I'm not sure where you got the idea of me storming out on a conversation. (Unless of course secret cahoots with Jenya?) I haven't done that once. The only time I've left a conversation in the middle of it, was last night with Jenya. When she persisted to antagonize me for no reason, after I told her that if that was her goal - then there was no point to the conversation.
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Post by Thor on Jun 12, 2009 18:34:50 GMT -5
but, georgia, don't you antagonize people for no reason? you can dish it out, but you can't take it?
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 12, 2009 19:15:11 GMT -5
Edit to include my vote: The Donald case is too nitpicky and circumstantial for me to base my vote off of at the moment. I will certainly consider him at future Exiles, but not this one. I am voting for the one person who jumps out at me as a Spy: Yvette. If there were questions in my mind about her, I would let her answer them, but the fact of the matter is that there is genuine evidence against her, in my opinion. That is why I am voting Yvette. Donald sent me that last round. It strikes me as interviewish. And your point is . . . . ? Everytime I talk to Georgia she asks me a ton of questions, but that's not a reason to suspect her. Not looking good for you, Levi.
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Post by Khaled on Jun 12, 2009 21:09:19 GMT -5
Khaled Now that I think about it, you voted Amelia for much the same reason episode 3, or am I mistaken? Partially. As I explained to you, I was sure that if Yvette was a spy, then Amelia was also a spy. Looking at the post that attacked you in the "exile Yvette" thread, the converse was plausible. Since taking out Yvette would have meant a big leap, I made a push for Amelia, since her contributions up until that point hadn't been very substantive and if we were wrong about her, we'd avoid making a dangerous mistake. If we were right, it would be easy to remove Yvette the next round. Faith: You say that alot of things would say you're a citizen. Enlighten us? In regards to Levi...right now, I'm surprised there's still a push for him as a spy that's running this strongly. Given how the voting turned out last round, I consider him more likely to be a citizen now.
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 12, 2009 22:00:38 GMT -5
In regards to Levi...right now, I'm surprised there's still a push for him as a spy that's running this strongly. Given how the voting turned out last round, I consider him more likely to be a citizen now. You might want to phrase this in the form of a question to someone you actually suspect of being a spy.
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Post by Jason on Jun 12, 2009 22:43:34 GMT -5
Edit to include my vote: The Donald case is too nitpicky and circumstantial for me to base my vote off of at the moment. I will certainly consider him at future Exiles, but not this one. I am voting for the one person who jumps out at me as a Spy: Yvette. If there were questions in my mind about her, I would let her answer them, but the fact of the matter is that there is genuine evidence against her, in my opinion. That is why I am voting Yvette. And your point is . . . . ? Everytime I talk to Georgia she asks me a ton of questions, but that's not a reason to suspect her. Not looking good for you, Levi. I don't see how this is strong evidence against Levi... A lot of us voted for Yvette... That doesn't make us all Spies, or at least I know it doesn't make me a Spy. Him calling the Donald case nitpicky could be a Spy trying to defend his friend, sure, but I thought it was a pretty weak case, too, and I bet there are others that thought so that episode or else Yvette probably would be here.
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 13, 2009 0:38:51 GMT -5
Levi hasn't done a ton to make himself look less spyish, but I'd say that other people's actions surrounding Levi make him look a little less spyish than he otherwise would right now. The possibility of competing wagons on two spies gets less and less as time goes on. I think presenting any and all evidence is the right thing to do right now, but after watching the wagon(s) pushed forth to protect Donald, I'm hesitant to go after either one of them.
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Post by William on Jun 13, 2009 0:52:21 GMT -5
Levi hasn't done a ton to make himself look less spyish, but I'd say that other people's actions surrounding Levi make him look a little less spyish than he otherwise would right now. The possibility of competing wagons on two spies gets less and less as time goes on. I think presenting any and all evidence is the right thing to do right now, but after watching the wagon(s) pushed forth to protect Donald, I'm hesitant to go after either one of them. That'd be nice for you, seeing as you're one of the ones who defended him. And by defended I mean tried consistently to derail it into a Kirsten bandwagon.
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 13, 2009 1:16:35 GMT -5
So you're thinking that I protected Donald in the thread Kirsten started, and then I placed a vote on my spypartner Donald before I left for the weekend of his exile? Sounds like a cut and dried case of busing to me, William. String me up, but be gentle.
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 13, 2009 1:25:02 GMT -5
So you're thinking that I protected Donald in the thread Kirsten started, and then I placed a vote on my spypartner Donald before I left for the weekend of his exile? Sounds like a cut and dried case of busing to me, William. String me up, but be gentle. Donald is controlling Georgia?
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 13, 2009 1:27:40 GMT -5
Why are you trying to confuse the subject, Kirsten?
What really mattered at the last exile was the order of Donald/Levi. I had Donald in front of Levi, meaning I wanted him exiled instead of Levi, who clearly knew he was the alternative for days ahead of time. Do you suspect that was busing on my part? Do you suspect my placement of Georgia #1 was an elaborate attempt to protect Donald?
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Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
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Post by Rey on Jun 13, 2009 1:35:07 GMT -5
I actually don't think the spies realized the amount of support for a Donald exile. I have the feeling they were taken by surprise. Which is why I suspect Levi to have been their target exile, and that the Donald voters are all likely citizens. I'm still unsure though, as one or more spies could have voted him because they thought there wasn't any support for his exile.
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 13, 2009 1:46:09 GMT -5
Why are you trying to confuse the subject, Kirsten? What really mattered at the last exile was the order of Donald/Levi. I had Donald in front of Levi, meaning I wanted him exiled instead of Levi, who clearly knew he was the alternative for days ahead of time. Do you suspect that was busing on my part? Do you suspect my placement of Georgia #1 was an elaborate attempt to protect Donald? The only reason the Donald/Levi order mattered was because of the sheer number of people who voted Donald in the first round, assuring he would last long enough in the running to have other people get to the part of the list he was on. The way you are wording this is misleading. You act as though Donald was an expected exile choice long before the exile, and that you ordered your list such that Donald was ahead of Levi specifically because you knew the exile would come down to those two. There's no way you could have known that. Prior to about 30 minutes before exile, Me, Roxy, and Amelia were the only votes for Donald. Based on the exile discussion thread, Amelia was the only person who explicitly said Donald was their top vote. Roxy and I both had Mirela as ours, but removed Mirela from the running once it was shown that the "lie" wasn't as cut and dry as it appeared. So you tell me, how did you know the exile was going to be between Donald and Levi? What you're trying to do is use the events of the exile (it came down to Donald and Levi) and try to fashion that as justification for your actions that took place prior to the exile. Your vote was Georgia, then Faith, then Donald. It's entirely possible you expected someone else to get exiled in the meantime. It's entirely possible you did not expect Donald votes and figured there would be no harm in ranking him fairly high.
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 13, 2009 1:49:55 GMT -5
I actually don't think the spies realized the amount of support for a Donald exile. I have the feeling they were taken by surprise. Which is why I suspect Levi to have been their target exile, and that the Donald voters are all likely citizens. I'm still unsure though, as one or more spies could have voted him because they thought there wasn't any support for his exile. Agreed. Gretchen's vote for Donald happened within the last 10 minutes, as did Ed's, as did Rey's. I don't think the spies expected Donald to be exiled, and thus I don't buy Jenya's assertion that Donald being the 3rd player she eventually voted means it's clear she wasn't busing him.
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Post by Mirela on Jun 13, 2009 7:19:13 GMT -5
My opinion on Levi is that he's a desperate citizen whose confused this game with a game of Survivor.
The End.
ACTUALLY, we should start focusing more on the issue at hand. Who do we think is a spy at this current moment? Nobody is learning anything useful in catching the spies in Ed's Imprisonment thread.
Now I'd like to suggest we put Faith on the table? I do think Levi is much less of a spy canidate at the moment. Faith on the other had, I'm still convinced is a spy. If she turn ot to be a citizen, I'll eat my words. But I really believe she is the spy here. I'm not going to be here for exile, and I'll most likely still be on my way home from my trip. But I WILL be voting for Faith this epsode, and that is that.
I understand it's a risk, but she's my top suspect at the moment. Amelia is my second. I will follow my gut feeling that Faith, Iris, or Ariel is a spy. I'm so not convinced about Ariel, I love how she's suddenly active now, when before she was barely here. The activity much?
Anyways those are my thoughts currently for this episode.
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 13, 2009 9:44:41 GMT -5
Gretchen's vote for Donald happened within the last 10 minutes, as did Ed's, as did Rey's. I don't think the spies expected Donald to be exiled, and thus I don't buy Jenya's assertion that Donald being the 3rd player she eventually voted means it's clear she wasn't busing him. Are you saying that my vote placed for Donald on Friday instead of at the last minute makes me more or less likely to have bused him? Do you think my behavior surrounding Donald is more or less suspicious than Georgia's, who said she wouldn't vote Donald this week because he was "away"? Do you think my behavior surrounding Donald is more or less suspicious than William's, who voted Donald at the previous exile when he wasn't in danger and then switched to Levi for the exile that counted? It's interesting to see the sides you take, Kirsten. You really want people to think you're cittish based on the Donald exile, because you switched to him in the last 12 hours or so. It remains on the record that during the 72 hours before exile, you pushed Levi momentum and didn't mention your Donald case much until very late in the game.
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Post by Thor on Jun 13, 2009 10:55:43 GMT -5
Now I'd like to suggest we put Faith on the table? i like you. please post more so you don't get exiled. thanks.
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Post by Thor on Jun 13, 2009 11:00:10 GMT -5
rey, i don't understand what you're trying to point out about about levi. i did not find donald's interrogation suspicious, either, just silly and unnecessary.
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Roxy
Roxy
Dead Queen Bitch.
Posts: 50
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Post by Roxy on Jun 13, 2009 11:06:03 GMT -5
Do you think my behavior surrounding Donald is more or less suspicious than Georgia's, who said she wouldn't vote Donald this week because he was "away"? Georgia also said that about Yvette, who obviously flipped cit. . I don't really think that was suspicious behavior on her part.
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Post by William on Jun 13, 2009 12:30:17 GMT -5
I'm not saying you bussed him. You didn't place your vote on Donald, you put him somewhere at 3 or below, after Georgia or Faith who could have been targets for exile by others. For all we know your next votes could have been me and/or Kirsten. I put donald at number 5, because I was feeling like your attacks and, frankly, lack of being helpful in conversation (you know they work both ways right? it's not an interview) made me want to boost you up to number one. Then I had Rey and Levi, then Gretchen, then Donald. I should have put him higher in hindsight, and as some have pointed out to me, if I suspected you and Donald, then I could've put him up first, and his spy-ness would add to your case. Turns out that happened without my help. Well at least your attacks are consistent, you once again go after Kirsten. At least she's attacking you first this time. And she made the case SOOOO LATE...yeah...by late you mean she opened the case during episode 3 right? Like, the one before exile 3 and exile 4? I know future week got confusing, but let's try to keep things in proper chronological order.
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 13, 2009 13:14:36 GMT -5
William, do you have a reason to defend Kirsten?
As I explained to her, there are three critical phases of making a case on someone:
1) Laying the groundwork--a week or weeks before exile, you raise some suspicions that start to put that player in the limelight. You may vote them at a previous exile to let people know you're serious. 2) In the five days between exiles you make this person your primary candidate for exile. This indicates your serious intent to have them exiled. 3) In the final hours before exile, you see how votes are going and make your final decisions. You either lead a push on a candidate, or in the case of spies, see an exile might be inevitable and hop on to bus your partner.
In Kirsten's case, she met (1) by laying a groundwork on Donald, albeit a relatively weak one. Without that groundwork, he might not have been exilable. She absolutely did not meet (2), because she pushed Levi all week leading up to exile. Her expressed intent was to make it a Levi exile, not a Donald exile, and I don't believe she brought up Donald much at all Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri/Sat. Finally, she participated and possibly led the final push on Donald, which fits (3). She claims he wouldn't have gotten exiled without her push. I'm interested to hear other perspectives on that.
Regardless, Kirsten gets some Cit credit for pushing Donald in (1) and (3). If all spies were that helpful, we'd wipe them out in no time flat.
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Post by Georgia on Jun 13, 2009 15:25:47 GMT -5
Amelia, what I get from this - is that you get better "reads" of people via chats with them on AIM.
If that is so, then how can you post your "well read" thoughts on people in the burg, if you haven't spoken to them on AIM?
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Post by William on Jun 13, 2009 15:42:13 GMT -5
Ok, I see the point you're making as far as dropping the donald case for a while. I didn't see that because she made the donald and levi cases is seperate threads. I'm defending Kirsten because her catching Donald being suspicious and the following pressure helped us (well the team in general, obviously I missed the boat) put him high enough to get him exiled. Her thread against donald went until the 3rd, ending with Kirsten responding to you. Donald himself stopped posting in it the day before, and I think at that point was away, which may explain the lack of Step 2(copyright the 3 step Jenya exile plan ). Her thread against Levi went until the 5th, and ended with Levi responding to Kirsten. I think it may just be a cause of Donald himself idling that caused the case to idle, until everyone started voicing their top suspects in the exile thread. People who said Donald was suspicious in the Exile thread, in order: Georgia page one (mostly spyish) Roxy Amelia Kirsten (sort of, claiming amelia's giving a calculated suspicion of donald) Levi (major suspect) Jason ("worried about but not sure") Faith (5th place) So she's not the only person coming with this case out of nowhere. I don't think she's some vote-pusher that got her way, I think she did, as you said, laid the groundwork and then everyone made their own decisions. Also, you're slightly misquoting her, but I get the point, she said we should vote levi by linking to his case thread. However that was on the 4th. She had 3 days after that to consider which was a stronger candidate. Anyways, that's why I don't think she's suspicious. So yeah, I will defend her on this case.
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Post by Georgia on Jun 13, 2009 16:37:24 GMT -5
Mirela, How did Levi go from Desperate Spy to Desperate Citizen?
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Post by Ellis on Jun 13, 2009 16:49:00 GMT -5
This Jenya - Kirsten - Ariel dynamic is really confusing. It feels like a big distraction, but I'm worried that one of them might be purposefully creating conflict. I've gone through four burg threads in order now, and three of them feature arguments between either two or all three of those people.
I find it interesting that everyone seems to be questioning how much Kirsten had to do with the Donald exile but nobody seems to be questioning how much Ariel had to do with Jaya (which is the only solid evidence I can see that Ariel's not a spy unless Roxy is proven to be a citizen). I wasn't on the team that lynched Jaya myself so I didn't see what went down, but as far as I can see, Yvette was the person who gave Ariel the most credit for Jaya's exile. Can anyone else confirm that?
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Post by Kirsten on Jun 13, 2009 18:21:49 GMT -5
Are you saying that my vote placed for Donald on Friday instead of at the last minute makes me more or less likely to have bused him? You mean your vote placed for Georgia? Then later placed for Faith? And then finally placed on Donald? Cut the deflection/avoidance/misrepresentation and stick to facts. I just wrote a large post explaining why this is misleading. I suggest you read it and actually respond to it, rather than brush it aside. Do you think my behavior surrounding Donald is more or less suspicious than Georgia's, who said she wouldn't vote Donald this week because he was "away"? Less. Do you think my behavior surrounding Donald is more or less suspicious than William's, who voted Donald at the previous exile when he wasn't in danger and then switched to Levi for the exile that counted? Less. The big reason I find you suspicious regarding the Donald exile is right here, how you are trying to play it off like you knew the exile would be between Levi/Donald and you put Donald ahead of Levi as a calculated measure to ensure he would be exiled in the inevitable showdown. Considering there is absolutely no way you could have known that is the case, and considering that you didn't exactly have Donald early in your list, you're making some big stretches here. I don't actually agree with William regarding you attacking me in Donald's thread being a veiled measure to protect Donald. My read on that situation is that you were so single minded in getting Yvette exiled, that you went out of your way to try to smear me as much as possible because I was the loudest voice opposing the exile. Based on the raw inaccuracy of everything you threw at me, you clearly didn't put much time into it. It's interesting to see the sides you take, Kirsten. You really want people to think you're cittish based on the Donald exile, because you switched to him in the last 12 hours or so. It remains on the record that during the 72 hours before exile, you pushed Levi momentum and didn't mention your Donald case much until very late in the game. I don't feel the need to tell everyone exactly how obvious it is I'm a cit based on the Donald exile, but needless to say, I think you have to be blind or a spy to suggest that I bused Donald. You keep looking solely at the tip of the iceburg (my Episode 4 actions regarding Donald) and completely ignore/deflect/brush aside any evidence from earlier in the game. I don't think you're blind, so, are you a spy? In Kirsten's case, she met (1) by laying a groundwork on Donald, albeit a relatively weak one. Without that groundwork, he might not have been exilable. She absolutely did not meet (2), because she pushed Levi all week leading up to exile. Her expressed intent was to make it a Levi exile, not a Donald exile, and I don't believe she brought up Donald much at all Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri/Sat. Finally, she participated and possibly led the final push on Donald, which fits (3). She claims he wouldn't have gotten exiled without her push. I'm interested to hear other perspectives on that. This was my contribution to getting Donald exiled: I talk to Gretchen before exile. She is voting William. I question her on her William vote contradicting her stance on William in her Jaya thread a while back. She agrees, and swaps to a vote on Donald. The two of us have discussed how scummy Donald is numerous times previously. Rey approaches me and mentions that he has no clue who to vote for, and that he's not sure between Gretchen/William/mirela/levi, etc. I tell him I'm voting Donald. He asks why. I tell him for Donald's weak/nonexistent suspicions. He argues that Donald is a cit for sending PMs out. I tell him that he sent me a PM as well. He tells me he changed his vote to Levi. I ask Rey about how his Levi vote fits with the earlier reasons Rey told me he found Levi a cit. He backs off Levi then, and eventually settles on Donald, with some help from Ellis. I talk to Ellis (in retrospect, this chat could be construed as pretty scummy). He says he doesn't know who to vote. I suggest Ed. We discuss it. I tell him my vote is currently on Donald. He looks back and agrees that Donald is suspicious. Ellis helps prod Rey into voting Donald. Regardless, Kirsten gets some Cit credit for pushing Donald in (1) and (3). If all spies were that helpful, we'd wipe them out in no time flat. Grudgingly admitting I get cit cred in the same breath you call me a spy? You seem loath to want to analyze this situation objectively. Is there a reason you wish to keep open the door to suspecting me?
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