|
Post by Judge Sam on Jun 26, 2009 12:52:15 GMT -5
I was looking through people's applications and I noticed in yours that you said you worked in PR / Promotions and I was wondering if I could pick your brain haha. Advertising this Spies thing is definitely the hardest part of it all and so much work goes into it. But I'm far far from an advertising expert, so any knowledge or information you have would be really helpful. I'm not sure if your familiar with internet advertising but even if not do you have any tips, websites, tricks, or anything I could do? I've been trying to use more social networking stuff like twitter / facebook but I'm not very good with it, do you have any ideas for that? I would die to have your opinion on so many different things, from the visual aspect, to how I can keep people on the site when they see a link, to just ways of getting people to come to the site in the first place. This game lives and dies by new interest in it and I have to run a mini advertising campaign every 4 months so just any ideas or knowledge would help so much. Thank ya.
|
|
|
Post by Gretchen on Jun 28, 2009 0:11:57 GMT -5
Oooh. Ok Lemme think about it some and get back to you. I am sure I can come up with a couple of things. Maybe you have thought of them already, maybe not
|
|
|
Post by Gretchen on Jun 30, 2009 20:30:32 GMT -5
Ok I have a couple of ideas, but what I want to know too is what do you actually want to achieve?
Do you want more players to send in applications? Or do you want more people watching the game from the sidelines? Or both?
Once I know that I think I can streamline my thoughts a little more for you.
|
|
|
Post by Judge Sam on Jun 30, 2009 21:26:06 GMT -5
Thanks. =) Hmm... while I do think Spies is a very watcher-friendly game, and I have put a lot of work into making it easier for people to watch the game from the start... I think it's a pretty low number of people who follow along with it haha. I dunno, 10 maximum? That's a generous guess taking in people who don't post haha. And while it would be really nice to have a bunch of people watching it isn't as vital as the application part you know? Without watchers, nothing much happens, without enough applications... there is no game lol. So I guess I'd mostly focus on applications. I typically give it a 3 week period from when I open up the board to when applications close, if you can remember what the board looked like back then haha. This is the advertisement I mostly send out: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pub94095&action=display&thread=80 . It's kinda long, but turns out it's hard to pick which complimentary quotes to cut out especially since I've already narrowed it down so much! Any ideas you have would help. As I'm sure you know from your own experience with first hearing about the game, Spies is kinda hard to explain to new people. When I get a new person's attention I have like maybe two minutes to pique their interest, explain the game to them, and entice them to fill out a 10-question application. If I don't use those two minutes (wherever I reach them) wisely, they X out and never think about Spies again haha.
|
|
|
Post by Gretchen on Jul 2, 2009 0:27:43 GMT -5
Alrighty. I have a couple of ideas for you. Firstly, the biggest issue for promoting the game whilst the game is on is that the players actually IN the game cannot promote it in fear of their true identities being found out. I have come up with a possible way around this. What I propose is that each player gets their own Page on Facebook. This allows them to interact with fans, post updates as they see fit, make a public confessional / whatever they like. The players will want to work on this (well most of them anyway) as the more people who like your character, the better you feel about the game. Slutlicia is a perfect example of that. All the pages are to be linked off a main Spies Group / Fan Page ~ this is where the majority of the traffic will flow from. I think it will be a little bit more work for you initially in that you will have to set up the pages (or I or anyone who helps you with this sorta stuff could) but I think the effort would be worthwhile. From a personal point of view, I think this would bring more enjoyment to playing the game > we're not locked inside this "bubble" of a forum. Another idea is of course Twitter. This is very easy to maintain and will require minimal time / effort. Once you have followers, simple Tweets like "Oxwald has been imprisoned by the Spies! Check it out here: (link)" allows Twitterers to access the game wherever they are. You can also add a FB Twitter application which allows you to post new Tweets from your FB page which makes it nice and easy. So to advertise that, it's just a matter of adding a "Follow us / the game on Twitter". Another thought is to give each character their own Twitter profile, and they can Tweet their own messages out to followers, which could be a bit of fun for some viewers. I like your advertisment - visually it's amazing. But you are right, it's too long and to be honest I couldn't be bothered reading it all. What got me was the recommendation from Katie (a previous player) and then hitting the site and reading a brief overview. With the above, that will all help generate action and attention in an active game... Word of mouth and good reports from previous players is always the best form of advertising in the online gaming world. Another idea is that you "reward" your past players for their help in promoting the game - i.e. giving them a "guest spot" in the next Episode if they bring you five applications. So when people apply, they say "I was recommended by..." That's the main ones I have come up with. I hope you like them. At the moment your cross-promotion in other Mafia applications is helpful, but it's not consistent / up-to-date enough to keep some people interested. I think that will be the change if you implement the Facebook suggestions above. Keep in mind also that when people join your Fan Page or Group Page, you can instantly message all of them your application details and deadlines... The audience will be there waiting for you
|
|
|
Post by Judge Sam on Jul 2, 2009 1:02:44 GMT -5
This is so cool haha. Here is my twitter that I made before the game started but haven't really used. I'll try and push it around everywhere to get people to follow it. The twitter idea is awesome. twitter.com/spiesmafiaAnd here's the facebook group... really haven't been using it much but I'll try and get more familiar with it. www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6014063321That's so true, I never realized how big that could be. Sometimes I ask people to point friends to the game but not tell them who the character is, but that's kinda lame. I could let them say who they are but then what if that person is also playing... sucks. I would be open to dropping the whole character idea. Personally I would prefer people using real names, I'm used to doing Survivor games where people use real names and real pictures. But with the mafia crowd, I don't know if that would fly... especially the pictures. And I do like the leaderboard haha. I'm not sure what would work best. That facebook page idea could really work though... and then people could message their friends on facebook as their character I guess. I hope they would do that haha. The public confessionals would be really awesome. I just hope that wouldn't take away from people writing private ones, as that is my #1 biggest enjoyment of the game haha I kill for those. I do like the idea of rewarding players for applications. I'll try and think what I can reward them with. I'll try and cut down on the application a little.
|
|
|
Post by Judge Sam on Jul 2, 2009 1:14:28 GMT -5
I agree that word of mouth / recommendations are key. Argh I have so many nice things people say but then I lose track of them and at the end I can't find it amongst 20,000 posts lol. I'll try and be more vigilant. (another problem is that even if they post them all in one thread, we change boards each game so...) Maybe I'll create my own really long list of complimentary quotes somewhere. Usually I try and advertise everywhere hardcore for the three weeks applications are open. One problem is that I get a lot of hits from that, but since applications are open for three weeks, and then there's a week from that until the game begins, people just forget about the game then (to watch it, I mean). Some do sign up for the board and then I e-mail them but to be honest those people rarely log-in again. Not sure what I can do about that, any ideas? Using facebook more will help tons I think. I should probably make its own account (though I use my real name mostly for Spies anyway lol maybe I'll just change the name, not really a facebook person.) Another thing is when I'm advertising during applications, like... it's 2 months since the last game ended, it's an empty board, and the game won't start for a few weeks. I do try and do everything I can to show off the last board, but just try going to Spies 5 by clicking the link on the bottom box there. And the first time you go there, there's like 20,000 posts. The game was incredibly interesting and exciting but no one is going to dig through all that to see that haha. I do have a forum that says "read this first!" and I've tried to create a bunch of summaries. I also have a Spies 5 summary page on this board under the past games board in the public grounds. I guess those are good I should point people to those more. In terms of getting watchers during the game, I update posts on 3 other mafia advertising sites maybe 3-4 times a game. Not sure how that works out. It's a shame because I think the game is super fun to watch... Imprisonment stories, some arguments in the Burg lol, twists and surprises... I mean I know not everyone wants to read every single post in the Burg but even if you don't do that there's plenty to see I think. It can be fun to just look at the leaderboard, guess who you think are Spies, then come back and see who is who one by one. Any other ideas you have would be great, I'll continue thinking about it to ask ya specific questions, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Judge Sam on Jul 10, 2009 8:50:33 GMT -5
Another thing I was thinking about is like maybe there is some way I could message someone's blog / a business and hope for like a big catch. I really do think almost anyone would enjoy these games, whether it's mafia or survivor or whatever, and everything I do is aimed towards making it as accessible as possible. I mean, could you imagine like getting a mention on something like msn.com for a day? That would be so killer haha, that would make my year. I work so hard on these things for months, 100s of hours of a completely free service, and just to get some sort of mass exposure somewhere would be insane. One roadblock I think is it's hard to explain the concept of a 'social online game' to some. I've been marketing this sometimes as a "online Mafia reality tv show" do you think that would help? I'm wracking my brain on who / where I could send an e-mail to (I guess that's how you go about it? who knows) for something like this to happen. You'd think the whole free thing would help it's not like I'm trying to charge people for this haha. Any ideas on this front? Maybe I'm too timid, maybe I should just start e-mailing tons of random people with a form letter. I have formed an "affliate" thing with one other mafia site, and for this game I got permission to post on another mafia site, as well as with my general advertising and PM'ing 300 people on mafia sites. I could go through everything I do to advertise and maybe you could give me pointers. I just don't know much about advertising haha. I would guess, that if I wanted to hire someone to promote the site we would be talking like $1,000 USD to start off and well, I'd like to keep it free or as close to free as possible.
|
|
|
Post by Gretchen on Jul 11, 2009 21:40:14 GMT -5
Usually I try and advertise everywhere hardcore for the three weeks applications are open. One problem is that I get a lot of hits from that, but since applications are open for three weeks, and then there's a week from that until the game begins, people just forget about the game then (to watch it, I mean). Some do sign up for the board and then I e-mail them but to be honest those people rarely log-in again. Not sure what I can do about that, any ideas?Ummm.... Hmmm... I think if they join one of the Spies FB groups, and regular reminders are sent out, most people will check in when they have the time to do so. Another idea is giving viewers a bit-part in some of the points of the game. For example - picking the Avatars for the players. They can log-in, read about the players, and pick on their favourite pic from like 3 options or something like that. Something which you do normally at the start of the game, before it's up and running. Something which will link your audience to your players emotionally - make them interested in following the game to start with. Once people have picked their favourite players, they will follow them in the game - which is also where the Fan Pages on FB will assist. -=- In terms of getting watchers during the game, I update posts on 3 other mafia advertising sites maybe 3-4 times a game. Not sure how that works out. It's a shame because I think the game is super fun to watch... Imprisonment stories, some arguments in the Burg lol, twists and surprises... I mean I know not everyone wants to read every single post in the Burg but even if you don't do that there's plenty to see I think. It can be fun to just look at the leaderboard, guess who you think are Spies, then come back and see who is who one by one.Agreed. And pretty much what we've been talking about - in terms of getting it more active within Facebook, is going to be a really good place to boost your numbers. Keep in mind as well, as the group grows, people who are actually part of the game will feel comfortable joining the group and promoting it on their real profiles as well as their character ones. I say this because right now I wouldn't join the group because there's only 30-odd people in there. By the end of this game, that number should have grown to around 50, and plus I have finished playing and have no chance of my real personality being exposed to my detriment. This is the same for Twitter - I wouldn't join yet due to the small numbers currently following the application. -=- Another thing I was thinking about is like maybe there is some way I could message someone's blog / a business and hope for like a big catch. I really do think almost anyone would enjoy these games, whether it's mafia or survivor or whatever, and everything I do is aimed towards making it as accessible as possible.One roadblock I think is it's hard to explain the concept of a 'social online game' to some. I've been marketing this sometimes as a "online Mafia reality tv show" do you think that would help?I'm wracking my brain on who / where I could send an e-mail to (I guess that's how you go about it? who knows) for something like this to happen. You'd think the whole free thing would help it's not like I'm trying to charge people for this haha. Any ideas on this front?That is a tough one. You can pay for advertising on Facebook which I know some people have found to be really successful... In terms of getting a mention like that, it is very much possible if you do your research. I would look for people who have successfully created similar games, or anything remotely like this to be honest, who have made it "big" and are self made like yourself. Appealing to this side should be successful with at least a couple of people - you just need to find out who they are. Guarantee they will have a FB page, Twitter, maybe a MySpace which they promote all sorts of things on. Once you have found them, definitely just flicking them an email will be the best way with a link to the site and a BRIEF summary of what it's all about. That's also key. Make it short and snappy. If it's too long they'll just skim over it and chances are will not actually visit the site at all. Keep in mind of course your cross-promotion too - even if you find people who are at the same level of exposure as yourself, helping eachother out isn't usually a bad idea either. I think it is a good idea to market it as a "reality tv show" in the same vein as the Survivor game - if nothing else to increase your Google standings. The site itself is beautiful to look at - there's lots of things for people to read - it's just getting them here, as you say, that is the challenge. The great thing about it looking so good though is that if you can find someone of notoriety / fame to help promote this, they won't have a problem doing it because it looks so damn good. Another area you could investigate are the Nerd Forums. Hahaha. I know that a lot of nerds who spend a lot of time online also have a few specific sites they post on and discuss their current thoughts on a massive range of topics. Finding some of those could prove beneficial. My partner is a massive nerd, so I could ask him for some names if you like. Also, have you promoted the game on any gaming sites? As in sites which review online games? That's another section of the net you could hit up. -=- Maybe I'm too timid, maybe I should just start e-mailing tons of random people with a form letter. I have formed an "affliate" thing with one other mafia site, and for this game I got permission to post on another mafia site, as well as with my general advertising and PM'ing 300 people on mafia sites. I could go through everything I do to advertise and maybe you could give me pointers.
I just don't know much about advertising haha. I would guess, that if I wanted to hire someone to promote the site we would be talking like $1,000 USD to start off and well, I'd like to keep it free or as close to free as possible. I am happy to take a look at what you're currently doing. Another idea is to email the creators of successful online games for hints and ideas. Some may shut you down and tell you to piss off. Some may give you some little bits of helpful info. Some may look at the game, like it, promote it for you and help you out with advice also. You never know what people may do. That's why you need to try anything - the worst they can say is No. I am not sure how the costs of online promotion work in terms of hiring someone to advertise for you. That's an area I luckily don't have to deal with
|
|
Rey
Rey
Amor del Rey
Posts: 161
|
Post by Rey on Aug 1, 2009 13:05:48 GMT -5
Gretchen is awesome! Keep the anonymous part of the game though.
|
|
|
Post by sluticia on Aug 4, 2009 13:26:23 GMT -5
GRETCHENOWNAGE 2K9 MOTHAFUCKAS.
|
|
|
Post by Ariel on Aug 5, 2009 22:39:58 GMT -5
One thing, and I don't know how this applies.... When Sam advertised at the site I (and later Georgia) came from, he didn't ask permission, which incensed a lot of the members. I think Sam might have gotten more if he'd asked permission - just saying. (Of course now he's got people [Georgia and I] that are actually members OF the site, so we can do the advertising for him).
|
|
|
Post by Gretchen on Aug 8, 2009 0:28:42 GMT -5
GRETCHENOWNAGE 2K9 MOTHAFUCKAS. I love you Casey
|
|