Spypairs

[Jenya]

Jason and Levi both brought up spypairs today.. something I've been thinking about a bit too lately. There are only 36 possible now. I'll list them here and we can keep running comments.

Update: 6 possible spypairs remain.


Kirsten + Levi
Kirsten attacked Levi and voted him twice, yet Levi always found her a "misguided cit".

Levi said he'd make a big case on Kirsten episode 11 but never did.

Levi and Kirsten were each others' top suspects and then each one grilled the other for a half hour. At the end of it, Levi trusted Kirsten 100% and "wouldn't vote her at any point in this game" and Kirsten said Levi "was looking a lot more like a Cit now".


Kirsten + Jason
Jason kept Kirsten posted as Mirela Jason and I held a "secret" meeting before Gretchen's exile. We were hoping to find an alternative to Gretchen, and Jason wouldn't budge on to Kirsten.

If you felt all along like Kirsten's quest to find the role investigation winner was over the top, it's because she already knew the winner all along: Jason. And was faking it.


Pete + Levi
Levi seemed pretty willing to pile on Pete in the later parts of the game, so I'm thinking they're probably not a spyteam.

Pete voted Levi at Exile 4. He didn't seem to have a ton of evidence for it, and didn't seem to have talked to Levi much in the weeks leading up to exile.


Kirsten + Pete
Both absent for a critical exile. I'm probably reading too much into that, but it would really set up a spyteam nicely for the final 7 if tonight's a mis-exile.


Jason + Levi
If these guys are spies together, they're geniuses. Levi ranted to Jason about his strategy for this coming exile, and he ranted to me about the exact same stuff. Then Jason chatted me up and pointed out the EXACT same contradictions I noticed. Tentatively crossing them out as a possible spypair.


Jason + Pete
I'm tentatively crossing this one out because the odds of FIVE spies being on my original team by random draw are something like 10%. That might not be wise, so like I say, it's tentative.









None of the below are correct, but I'll list them in case anyone wants evidence tracked for them anyway.

Jenya + Jason
Jenya + Pete
Janya + Levi
Jenya + Mirela
Jenya + Georgia
Jenya + Boris
Jenya + Kirsten
Jenya + Gretchen

Gretchen + Boris
Kirsten + Boris
Georgia + Boris
Georgia trusted Boris based on "group chats" they'd had. If either comes up spy, go back and look at that conversation in the s6 channel.. it kind of freaked both of them out.
Mirela + Boris
If Boris is a spy, I note that he tried to push Mirela as a last-minute protection of Donald and/or Levi. Why would he push another spy as an alternative to a spy?
Jason + Boris
Pete + Boris
Levi + Boris
If Boris is a spy, I note that he tried to push Mirela as a last-minute protection of Donald and/or Levi. If Levi's a Cit, why not just push him instead of Mirela?

Gretchen + Georgia
Georgia saved Gretchen by voting Jenya. Minor point here--it would be a major point if it was anyone but Georgia doing the protecting.

Kirsten + Georgia
Georgia (-) voted Kirsten. Risky if they're a spyteam.

Georgia + Levi

Georgia + Mirela

Georgia + Pete

Georgia + Jason

Gretchen + Kirsten
Gretchen (-) voted Kirsten. Risky if they're a spyteam.
Kirsten suggested I protect Gretchen or Mirela from exile 11. Then changed her answer to Mirela when I pretended to need a tiebreaker at the deadline. Kirsten's suspected Gretchen often I think.. it's odd that she'd ask me to protect her.

Gretchen + Mirela

Gretchen + Jason
Point against this pairing: Jason could have easily voted Boris yesterday, instead he voted for Gretchen and help on to it late, with apparent full intent to exile. It looked like his vote would make the difference.

Gretchen + Pete

Gretchen + Levi

Kirsten + Mirela
I'm tentatively crossing this one out. I think there's very little chance that two spies secretly schemed to get rid of Thor and then made their secret scheming public.

Mirela + Levi
Mirela and Levi seemed genuinely antagonistic when I asked Mirela to check him out Ep. 4.

Mirela + Pete

Mirela + Jason

[Jenya]

bump, updated.

[Boris]

Wait, when did I ever push Mirela as a last minute push?

[Georgia]

I think it was a "push".
It stemmed from either you or Khaled. Or a joint effort.
I assume it had to do with Mirelas "losing internet", yet was still on AIM. Or whatever.

[Georgia]

Meh.
That convo didn't freak us out. At least it didn't me.
No one got my humor.

[Jenya]

21 possible scumteams left. I've tentatively eliminated 2, taking it down to 19. Imprisonment will take it down further unless I get Imprisoned.

[Georgia]

I did not save Gretchen.

Kirsten's case against Thor was not secret.

[Jenya]

bump, updated. Only 10 spypairs remain. Can we please start using this thread more?

[Kirsten]

Levi + Mirela

I doubt exile 4 was between 3 spies, and two of them decided to attack each other while ignoring the 3rd. The interactions between them do not suggest spy-spy.

Levi + Pete

Pete voted Levi episode 4, fairly unexplained. Definitely plausible.

Levi + Jenya

Jenya sent Mirela to test Levi. An interesting scheme between two spies, but for now I consider it unlikely. Jenya voted Levi tonight. To consider.

Levi + Jason

I consider this a plausible pair, actually, because Jason defending Levi way back in Episode '04. Back before Donald was a dead spy. Back before we made Amelia cry. Back before Iris had to lie.

Levi + Kirsten

Levi called me out as his first suspicion of the game, which looked strong enough to make me the exile early episode 1. I voted Levi episode 1, tried to get people to vote him episode 2, voted him episode 3. For us being the alleged last two spies, you have to suspend a lot of disbelief around the early game play. Levi and I also both decided to screw ourselves over by doubling up on Boris when Amelia was exiled. Voting a citizen isn't cool unless you have your spy buddy on board to double the pleasure, double the fun. Doublespy wagon!

Mirela + Jenya

Jenya keeps using Mirela as her avatar of trickery. She also exile protected Mirela 3 times and is considering the 4th. Unlikely spy team here.

Mirela + Jason

I haven't seen anything either way here.

Mirela + Pete

Not seeing many interactions here.

Mirela + Kirsten

We did an excellent job tag-teaming Thor, and we doubled up on Boris. Uh, double up, Uh, Uh.

Jenya + Jason

The "sorry Khaled' combination. I'm not seeing it. Two spies decide to gambit together with their roles in a public fashion just seems so unlikely. They also apparently both claimed citizen role power-ups. Those schemers!

Jenya + Pete

My only counterpoint to this combination is the "5 spies on that opening team" point. It's not something to rule out entirely, but would Almathea have been exiled if it was 6 cits 5 spies? That's Lylo day 1!

Jenya + Kirsten

Queens of dead citizens. Yvette, Khaled, Rey, Thor, Boris, Gretchen and Jenya snuck one in on a real and live citizen, silly little me. Why hasn't Jenya or Kirsten been imprisoned yet? One must be protecting the other! Or maybe it's both. DUN DUN DUN! Having said that, we aren't a spy team.

Pete + Kirsten

I had to move out of my apartment before the end of the month, and last weekend was the only time my roommates could go down to move our stuff and clean. Pete is allegedly on vacation. In reality, I just wanted to lurk and Pete got sick of lurking so he went inactive. He voted Gretchen, I voted Boris. We mixed it up a bit, but either way led to a dead citizen. On a more serious note, I actually don't have any information to disprove this one off the top of my head. Damn.

Pete + Jason

The 5 spy theory says this is a no. Other than that, it's a possibility.

Jason + Kirsten

I keep suggesting that Amelia's role investigation vote on him was fishy because I like to make unprovable accusations on my spy buddy. I also tried to hunt down the role investigation winner as a ruse. It was a clever trick to distance from Jason, because I already knew he had it. That's why I kept asking Rey if he got it, so I could make believe. I'm so sly. He also slapped +2 on me for good measure tonight. I promptly slapped him back in the face.

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Levi + Pete: My top pick currently. Spies can go on vacation. It's not unfair. Samantha went on vacation for like 2 weeks last season. Levi "feels" like a cit, but at this point everyone except Jason does, and Jason has other factors in his favor. I think the way he attacked me and then apologized for it, drastically changing his mind was..fishy. Early interactions with Donald suggest Spy to Spy, as I pointed out in my capsule of time.

Regardless. I shall be reviewing every player in the game this week. Even Jenya, although I might opt to skim some of that, because, Damn...This isn't a job...sheesh.

[Jenya]

bump. 6 spypairs remain.

[Kirsten]

Jul 15, 2009 14:18:36 GMT -5 Jenya said:

Kirsten + Levi
Kirsten attacked Levi and voted him twice, yet Levi always found her a "misguided cit".

Levi said he'd make a big case on Kirsten episode 11 but never did.

Levi and Kirsten were each others' top suspects and then each one grilled the other for a half hour. At the end of it, Levi trusted Kirsten 100% and "wouldn't vote her at any point in this game" and Kirsten said Levi "was looking a lot more like a Cit now".

Episode 1 interactions make almost no sense if we are spies together.

Jul 15, 2009 14:18:36 GMT -5 Jenya said:

Kirsten + Jason
Jason kept Kirsten posted as Mirela Jason and I held a "secret" meeting before Gretchen's exile. We were hoping to find an alternative to Gretchen, and Jason wouldn't budge on to Kirsten.

If you felt all along like Kirsten's quest to find the role investigation winner was over the top, it's because she already knew the winner all along: Jason. And was faking it.

Yeah, that's completely bullshit. You've randomly decided that my hunt was over the top because you used your...wait for it...confirmation bias that I'm a spy to make that determination. Unless you can actually provide any evidence whatsoever that my hunt for the role investigation winner was over the top you can shove off.

As for Jason not wanting to exile me, thank God at least one player in this game has any sense. I almost hope he's a spy, because it would so perfectly complete the rout you are about to have come true, Jenya.

Jul 15, 2009 14:18:36 GMT -5 Jenya said:

Pete + Levi
Levi seemed pretty willing to pile on Pete in the later parts of the game, so I'm thinking they're probably not a spyteam.

Pete voted Levi at Exile 4. He didn't seem to have a ton of evidence for it, and didn't seem to have talked to Levi much in the weeks leading up to exile.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

So I'm a spy with Jason because I spent hours trying to hunt down the winner of the role investigation (Jason) in hopes of catching a spy.

However, Pete + Levi can't be spies together because Levi has suggested willingness to pile on Pete despite not voting him once, not throwing suspicion on him once, and when I asked him today his spy team was Me + Jason. Yep, Pete + Levi make absolutely no sense /sarcasm. In fact, I make more sense as a spy partner to Pete despite voting him last episode than Levi does, despite ignoring him and not making any effort to pressure him whatsoever.

Do you use any logic whatsoever in making these distinctions?

Jul 15, 2009 14:18:36 GMT -5 Jenya said:

Kirsten + Pete
Both absent for a critical exile. I'm probably reading too much into that, but it would really set up a spyteam nicely for the final 7 if tonight's a mis-exile.

You're reading way too much into it. Seriously, I'm actually quite fucking annoyed that I have to defend myself for having to move out of my apartment. I would have preferred to sit around and play spies over spending hours and hours moving shit out of my apartment and cleaning every nook and cranny, but hey, clearly this was some sort of scum scheme between Pete and I. Because that makes any sense.

Jul 15, 2009 14:18:36 GMT -5 Jenya said:

Jason + Levi
If these guys are spies together, they're geniuses. Levi ranted to Jason about his strategy for this coming exile, and he ranted to me about the exact same stuff. Then Jason chatted me up and pointed out the EXACT same contradictions I noticed. Tentatively crossing them out as a possible spypair.

Show me the chats. I have an extremely hard time taking your word for anything as you have clearly shown throughout the entire game an inability to look at any situation with an unbiased look. From my standpoint, Jason defended Levi quite solidly early episodes when Levi was going to get exiled. But clearly them discussing some information together overrides any possible other arguments.

----------------------------------------

Levi is a spy. He attacks Mirela, she gets imprisoned, then he swaps to me + Jason as a spy pair. Doesn't it bother you at all Jenya how Levi pretty much wasted no time following your lead?

Apparently, not, as you seem to have a blind spot for people who agree with you, while finding anyone who doesn't far scummier than they actually are. In fact, you have thought I am a spy ever since I disagreed with your Yvette case and instead pushed Donald. That's right. I disagreed with your case on a citizen, and instead pushed a case on a spy. But to the great and mighty Jenya that is suspicious as fuck because I didn't agree with her. Oh No! You then attribute WIFOM to any possible way I could be a citizen. You have expressed suspicion of me since episode 3, but you haven't been imprisoned yet. I knew about your role since episode 4, and you haven't been imprisoned yet. And unlike Jason you can't attribute it to being in your pants, because you've been suspicious of me since the dawn of time. So why haven't I imprisoned you yet, Jenya? Must be that damn WIFOM. Clearly I didn't imprison you because I wanted you left alive so you could fuck me over in the final 5! That must be it!

If I'm a spy, you were bar none my obvious imprisonment choice. But I'm stupid as fuck and didn't make it. Clearly.

And my spy buddy is Jason, the one who you cleared as a citizen. I guess not? I guess you have to make some ridiculous stretches to assume I'm a spy, including taking players you've cleared as a citizen and naming them a spy as well.

So what is it? Are you a spy, or are you clueless?

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And obviously my rant here will be called scummy. Please, I'm dying to hear you make that argument. The truth is that I'm pretty much sick of having to deal with you making absurd and weak arguments over and over again. Contrary to popular believe, defending myself against leading the exile of two fucking spies, the entire point of the fucking game gets pretty annoying after a while. I'm a competitive player, and it pisses me off to no fucking end that we're going to lose this game because you can't get over your arousal over the thought of Kirsten being a spy, despite how completely illogical that is.

Levi is a spy. Please, for the love of God, can we exile a spy this time?

[Kirsten]

Levi + Pete

The current top runner. Pete votes Levi out of the blue episode 4, when it looked like Levi was going to be exiled. He spent the hour before exile discussing Mirela with me. Why not vote Mirela, Pete? Despite Jenya asserting otherwise with no evidence whatsoever, Levi has made no effort to get Pete exiled recently. Levi's scum combination is me + Jason, for "Pete's sake".

Levi + Jenya

This would satisfy my inner-conspiracy theorist greatly. Jenya voted me over Levi last episode, despite saying she wouldn't vote for me prior to final 3 and also despite expressing suspicion of Levi to me (but yet declining to actually discuss with me why she was going to vote me). This episode, she wastes no time "convincing" Levi that me + Jason are the last two spies. For someone she is suspicious of (Levi) she doesn't have any problems telling him exactly the easiest way to achieve a mis-exile.

Levi + Jason

Well, this is a waste of time to write out because apparently Levi + Jason discussed something once, and Jason found a contradiction in it. Wait a minute!!!! Holy shit! Did I not discuss something with Donald, find a contradiction in it and get him exiled?! By golly! I did! But apparently I can be a spy with Donald, yet Levi + Jason can't be spies together.

In a more logical approach, Jason defended Levi early game when Levi was an exile candidate. Levi voted Jason for the role investigation along with Amelia. Maybe the spies aren't hesitant to openly discuss how they handed it over to another spy? Currently I'm listing this as slightly less likely than Levi + Pete based on my read of Pete as scummier than Jason, but it shouldn't be written off.

Levi + Kirsten

I know this one to be false already. But here are some points to suggest it for the benefit of everyone else:

I tried to get Levi exiled episode 1. He posted his first suspicion of me publicly (while apparently having an earlier suspicion of Donald that he only communicated privately to a select few. Hmmm... That strikes me as fishy. Anyone else feel that way?) leading to me picking up a lot of potential votes. At one point, Levi, Donald, Amelia, William, Roxy were all possible Kirsten voters. Episode 2, I could have stuck to my own team, but I decided to branch out and try to get Levi exiled for the other team. Totally unnecessary if we are spies. I could have stuck to my own team and revisited Levi in 3, instead of going out of my way to make him a suspect. Episode 3, I voted him thnking Ellis would come through with some votes of his own. Episode 4, I attacked him thoroughly for the first half of the episode, eventually settling on Donald, a different spy (and doing a lot to prevent Mirela, a now confirmed cit, from being exiled).

I'm going to cut into my own story here and say that I've heard the argument: "Levi thought Kirsten was a cit even though Kirsten was attacking him, which suggests they are spies together." To anyone who makes that argument, I have one question: "Have you ever played mafia before...at all?" If Spy 1 attacks spy 2, spy 2 either ignores spy 1 or calls spy 1 scum, so as to distance in case of eventual death to either. That is the standard play. However, if you are scum and some citizen is tearing the shit out of you, the natural response is to call them a citizen. That's what Donald did to me. If you are a spy in that situation and you call them a spy, someone will call OMGUS, and you dig your own grave. Best is to call them a citizen and hope you can flatter your way out of it.

And now, this exile is apparently between Kirsten/Levi. With 2 spies in the game, do you honestly think the exile would be between 2 spies? Hell no. The spies are almost 50% of the game. There is a citizen slated to be exiled, guaranteed.

Pete + Jason

I'm thinking this is unlikely. 4 spies + a traitor being on one team and still getting a spy exiled from that team is not likely at all.

Pete + Jenya

Same as Pete + Jason.

Pete + Kirsten

I'll just copy what I said before: "I had to move out of my apartment before the end of the month, and last weekend was the only time my roommates could go down to move our stuff and clean. Pete is allegedly on vacation. In reality, I just wanted to lurk and Pete got sick of lurking so he went inactive. He voted Gretchen, I voted Boris. We mixed it up a bit, but either way led to a dead citizen."

I don't have much to say here, other than that I've been suggesting Pete as Levi's spy buddy, and voted for him last episode.

Jason + Jenya

See 4 spies + traitor = unlikely. Also the way they handled their roles would be quite the scum gambit (also getting nice cit upgrades) suggesting almost 0% chance this is the spy team.

Jason + Kirsten

Contrary to Jenya's over the top argument, I think me trying to hunt down the role investigation holder in hopes of catching a spy, and then continually suggesting Jason is scummy because of how Amelia voted him for the investigation is not prototypical spy play. I didn't need to hear about Amelia's vote, or use that to throw suspicion on Jason, at all, if we are spies together. Why take hidden information and bring it to light to toss suspicion on my scum buddy?

I'm also one of the few people who still brings up Khaled's "yes" result and how it could be Jason. I could conveniently forget about that if we were spies together.

Jenya + Kirsten

Jenya wanted me exiled last episode and wants me exiled this episode. There's no way this is busing, when Jenya could simply have hopped on Levi just as easy as me.

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It's probably Levi + Pete. It's possibly Levi + Jason. I'm hesitant to rule out Jenya + Levi because of how Jenya is attacking me, but I have a hard time seeing Jenya as a spy. Jason + Pete is very unlikely.

Greatest Common Denominator: LEVI

Other than Pete, I can make an argument as to why I don't fit as a spy with anyone in this game. Those should not be dismissed.