Post by Ellis on Jun 16, 2009 20:23:24 GMT -5
Wow, posted after imprisonment. (Actually started posting before imprisonment but didn't check the thread to see if it was updated.)
OK... first, I made a HUGE post, but decided not to post it until after imprisonment, so I just saved it to a text file. In it were such choice cuts as these:
Ahem... couple of small points.
To say Iris is a spy, you'd have to assume that:
1) Iris's role-claim twenty minutes before her exile was the action of a spy, not a panicked citizen who threw out a lie and got caught in it.
2) Amelia's defence of Iris is motivated by them both being spies, rather than Iris being a citizen and Amelia somehow knowing it (or Iris being a spy and Amelia trusting her enough to risk incriminating herself in order to come to Iris's defence).
And to say Amelia is also a spy, you have to assume that:
3) There isn't a real role out there handing out imprisonment immunities that Iris is aware of (because one had been handed to a real spy by accident, for example) and that couldn't come forward and claim (because they'd just been imprisoned, for example).
4) Amelia is willing to risk her neck and her game trying to prove a fellow spy's roleclaim after that spy has already been caught in one lie.
You'll gather that I feel more confident in the IrisSpy theory than the AmeliaSpy one right now. Of course it doesn't exactly matter, since we can only exile one person this round anyway.
And:
A small point on Iris:
Wasn't she the one who asked in the opening chat if the spies knew that the citizens didn't know their roles before then? Obviously Sam wouldn't let the spies go around claiming to know their alignments if he was going to announce later on that nobody but the spies did. Which makes Iris' question look very naive, or possibly an attempt to feign ignorance.
I expect you're glad I didn't go ahead and post that!
OK... real final words this time.
First of all, this is the most fun I've had in any Spies game since - and indeed including - Spies 1. I think we've got an awesome team of citizens here and I wish Rey, Ariel, Kirsten, Jenya, and all the rest of them the absolute best of luck. I doubt I'll need it though. They'll win. I just wish I could be there with them to see it happen.
Also, what happened to my awesome imprisonment story? That's gotta be one of the most ironic things ever in Spies. If anyone specialises in spiel after spiel of great-sounding but pointless crap, it's me. (Not that I'm calling your imprisonment stories pointless or crap!) I would have thought I should get the most bombastic, overdone, pomposity-laden mess that you could find. Instead I get: "Ellis has been night-killed." Wow, thanks!
Secondly, I said this over AIM to Sam but I'd like to repeat it here: I'm really sorry that I took two penalties. The first one was intentional (I actually did write a piece of advice, it's in my confessional, but I didn't want to post it because I wanted to look as harmless as possible. Guess the spies finally got wise to my act. I BLAME YOUR BURG POSTING TWIST SAM!!!! Or possibly the spies thinking that I had the real protective role that Iris claimed? If they wanted to shut me up about that, they're in for a shock when it's revealed that I didn't have it.
I had a specific strategy coming into this game, which was to try and appear as harmless as possible. To a certain extent it worked, but there are things that you can't really do anything about. (The spies might think you have a role for example.) If I failed at any point, and I'm sure I did, I can't think where specifically it was at the moment. But don't worry, I'll be obsessing about it until the end of the game so I'll be bound to come up with something.
I'm proud of what I personally, and the citizens as a team, managed to achieve here. I lasted five exiles and, if Iris is a spy, I not only managed to vote for only one citizen (sorry, Yvette!) but also was part of groups that got three scum exiled - four if you count Jaya, although I was on the wrong side of that one in every sense!
Thirdly, if you could post my entire time capsule entry, of which NONE is copied and pasted btw (yes, it's even my own recipes!) then I'd love to see the reactions, especially Tibby's.
I have a few choice words to say to people, especially as I didn't want to post in the burg any more than I could. Let's start with the eliminated players.
Faith - I wish we'd been able to talk more. That's the one bad part of an AIM-rationing strategy, it doesn't allow you to get to know everyone like you'd like to. I think I know who you are now and I'd be interested to see if I was right about that one. All I can say is you had one of the best exits of anybody in any Spies game yet. Major props.
Ed - I think you made a great sounding-board for me towards the end. Why the spies imprisoned you I don't know, although I posted my theory in the burg; but like Faith, I wish we'd had more time to get to know one another. You seemed like a cool guy who knew his stuff.
Donald - I only caught onto you in literally the last half hour. But sometimes it's enough.
Gabriela - props, girl, you had a lot of people fooled into thinking you were brainless and naive, when I think by the end we all acknowledged you were anything but. (Well not me - I knew all along!) I never quite bought the act, and it seems that the spies didn't either. But then, I don't suppose they bought my act.
Yvette - Jason, who could very well be a dirty spy, had me SO CONFUSED. I was doubting myself over Levi (big mistake) and in the end I went with my strategy and voted for the person who, although I wasn't convinced was a spy, looked like the best person to vote to ensure my survival. We didn't talk much but you seemed pretty damn awesome, not a megabitch AT ALL fyi, and I'm really really sorry about what happened to you.
Mei Yun - although we only talked once or twice, I would've loved to have seen more of you. I'm not surprised the spies saw you as a threat. I did myself. You had a great sense of humour and I'll remember you for that.
Paris - I had you NAILED. Why didn't you play for the final five, then vote with the remaining two spies? It was WAY too early to show your hand. Still, nice try.
Jaya - I had you nailed from the start, then I let you go! I still think it was more your cluelessness than your cunning that fooled me, but hey... take what you can get.
Robert - wish I could've spoken to you more, but the chats you posted in the burg made it look like you were pretty damn dedicated. Respect, bro.
Almathea - check your mail. Mine's the one with the big heart on the cover.
And finally, Callahan... never knew anything about you, but I know how much it sucks to be exiled first.
Living players then...
Rey, Tibby, Jenya. It looks like they're finally onto us. Keep it real guys, and bring it home. Tibby, there's a little something in my time capsule for you.
Ariel - girl, you need to LOOSEN UP A LITTLE! But boy, are you playing this game!
Kirsten - KICK SOME SPY BUTT FOR ME. I gave you some serious help with Donald and possibly got myself imprisoned in the process. Now you frikkin' OWE me!
Boris - you are one funny guy and you play a mean game of checkers.
Khaled - if you're not a spy, you are one of the weirdest brain-men I've ever met. But sometimes weird-intelligent is good. Whatever you're doing, keep it up.
Levi - I still think you're a spy. But you are one helluva personality and I think you're doing great at this game, whichever side you're on. Good luck with your hosting!
Jason - if you're a spy, great job. If you're a citizen, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING??!!!
Everyone else - wish I could've seen enough of you to write something witty about you here.
Nooooow... the interesting part. Suspects.
I think there is one spy, probably only one spy, who's generally accepted to be a citizen (and I mean more than Levi is). That choice at the moment would be JASON. Since helping to bandwagon Almathea, he's done nothing. He's the most suspicious guy in the burg but nobody sees it because they've all written him off. If he's a spy, he'll be tough to beat, but the relentless tide of his spy-actions must surely tip someone off eventually! The trouble is, I never got to tell anyone that Jason got the "role investigation". It could be that his fellow spies voted for him, just like I did. Maybe I was imprisoned to shut me up about that? Also his case on Paris looks like a bit of pre-emptive defence for when Paris turns up citizen... and he credits others for Yvette, maybe because he thinks she's a spy and wants to safeguard himself, or maybe because he knows she's not.
There's more evidence against Jason than against anybody else. But there's also a huge fact from the first episode in his favour as well. Still, I can't find anyone who claims to have seen him really go after Almathea until right before the first exile...
LEVI... I think the exile was supposed to be between Levi and Mirela / Ed. I don't think the spies expected Donald to come into it, let alone be exiled, which is probably why Amelia voted for Donald as high as she did (if she's a spy). I don't think he can last much longer but he's done a good job of getting this far. I could be utterly wrong about this but I don't think so.
I'm inclining towards one or both of BORIS and GEORGIA being a spy, and one of BORIS and LEVI being a spy. If Boris is a spy, Levi probably isn't and Georgia might be. I don't want Boris to be a spy, but he can't be ruled out. Georgia I simply don't know enough about, but her top two of Levi and Donald makes me trust her more than others do. Again though, she's a contender. Again, if Georgia is a spy, Levi probably isn't and vice versa.
IRIS could be a citizen scrambling to survive, or a spy. If she's a citizen, you have to explain AMELIA's suggestion that she got the imprisonment save. The most obvious solution to that would be that they're both spies. On the other hand, if the spies thought I had the protective role, they might have imprisoned me to stop me from telling people that I, and not Iris, actually gave it to Amelia. In which case Iris may or may not be a spy, and Amelia certainly isn't.
AMELIA is the kind of person who it's very difficult to rule out. Her defence of Iris looks extremely fishy if Iris is a spy, and practically clears her if Iris turns out to be a cit. I've leant spy from day one for Amelia, and I'm going to stick to that now.
WILLIAM... I've leant cit for a while. He could be the classic UTR spy, but I really don't think that his Donald votes are a set-up, and his burg posts look innocent enough. I could be wrong and I wouldn't be surprised if I was, just annoyed.
MIRELA has been a big suspect as well. I'm leaning citizen but she's done things that I've found suspicious. If she's a spy I wouldn't be at all surprised.
KHALED too... theoretically he's a big suspect, but he's got one helluva cover if he is. Add that to his early attacks on Iris and I think he's genuine, if a bit misguided. Would I be surprised if he was a spy? Not in the slightest, although I'd commend him on one helluva citizen persona.
OSWALD I have a small question mark over - his challenge performance was crap - but I'll go with the crowd here. He's a likely cit.
All the rest are 90% or better citizens. I'd love to think that someone like Kirsten has everyone fooled, and that's always a possibility. But I don't think so in this case. If there's a spy in the rest of 'em, he or she has me fooled.
Who do I think the spies are? I'm gonna say... IRIS, AMELIA, LEVI and JASON. Funnily enough, that's also the order in which I think they'll be exiled. Even if one or two citizens go down first. As a second choice I'd go with IRIS, AMELIA, KHALED and BORIS, because I can never choose just one list when two will do. If Iris turns out to be a scared cit instead of a nasty spy, Amelia's innocent, which means more male spies, Mirela or Georgia.
I'd have worked it all out as the exiles went down. Unfortunately I won't be there to see it.
One more thing, Sam. I know you and I, as usual, have clashed (a little). And I know I promised you three pages of praise for this game. Well, this probably won't be three full pages, but I'll do my best.
Let me quote myself from some of the pre-game posts:
"Respect the host."
"Don't get personal."
"What this shows is that Sam is FAIR."
You see, it genuinely surprises me that so few people, when giving out advice about how to play ORGs like this one, mention the host. After all, you guys (hosts) are pretty much integral to the whole ORG experience, right?
I always say stuff like this, no matter what game I'm in. While I've disagreed with hosts, including yourself, I try never to overstep a certain line. I always try to treat hosts with respect; to take their games seriously; to not take the piss when it comes to penalties etc (don't know if I quite managed that this time unfortunately, but the intention was there); and generally to act in the way that I'd want players in an ORG I hosted, if I ever did host one, to act.
Why? It's not just because it's more pleasant or more fun that way (although it is). It's because I don't ever want to make a host as good, as dedicated, as fair and as generally excellent as you are feel that it's "not worth it anymore". Very very few people could do what you do - I don't think that I could. And maybe a tenth of those people, the ones who could do it, have ever managed to do it a quarter as well as you do it.
This has easily been the best Spies game so far, and that's saying a lot. The cast has been fantastic, the hosting has been top-notch, the design has been almost flawless to a level that I don't think you've ever reached before. The only thing I'm worried about is: how the hell are you going to top this one for Spies 7?
I'll finish by saying what I started with: This has been, in terms of pure fun, the best spies game for me by a long mile. Thanks so so so much for the opportunity to be part of it with all of these fantastic players and a wonderful host.
David, alias Ellis, out, for the final time, at least until I post my final AIM convos from exile night, and you let me into the losers' lounge.
OK... first, I made a HUGE post, but decided not to post it until after imprisonment, so I just saved it to a text file. In it were such choice cuts as these:
Ahem... couple of small points.
To say Iris is a spy, you'd have to assume that:
1) Iris's role-claim twenty minutes before her exile was the action of a spy, not a panicked citizen who threw out a lie and got caught in it.
2) Amelia's defence of Iris is motivated by them both being spies, rather than Iris being a citizen and Amelia somehow knowing it (or Iris being a spy and Amelia trusting her enough to risk incriminating herself in order to come to Iris's defence).
And to say Amelia is also a spy, you have to assume that:
3) There isn't a real role out there handing out imprisonment immunities that Iris is aware of (because one had been handed to a real spy by accident, for example) and that couldn't come forward and claim (because they'd just been imprisoned, for example).
4) Amelia is willing to risk her neck and her game trying to prove a fellow spy's roleclaim after that spy has already been caught in one lie.
You'll gather that I feel more confident in the IrisSpy theory than the AmeliaSpy one right now. Of course it doesn't exactly matter, since we can only exile one person this round anyway.
And:
A small point on Iris:
Wasn't she the one who asked in the opening chat if the spies knew that the citizens didn't know their roles before then? Obviously Sam wouldn't let the spies go around claiming to know their alignments if he was going to announce later on that nobody but the spies did. Which makes Iris' question look very naive, or possibly an attempt to feign ignorance.
I expect you're glad I didn't go ahead and post that!
OK... real final words this time.
First of all, this is the most fun I've had in any Spies game since - and indeed including - Spies 1. I think we've got an awesome team of citizens here and I wish Rey, Ariel, Kirsten, Jenya, and all the rest of them the absolute best of luck. I doubt I'll need it though. They'll win. I just wish I could be there with them to see it happen.
Also, what happened to my awesome imprisonment story? That's gotta be one of the most ironic things ever in Spies. If anyone specialises in spiel after spiel of great-sounding but pointless crap, it's me. (Not that I'm calling your imprisonment stories pointless or crap!) I would have thought I should get the most bombastic, overdone, pomposity-laden mess that you could find. Instead I get: "Ellis has been night-killed." Wow, thanks!
Secondly, I said this over AIM to Sam but I'd like to repeat it here: I'm really sorry that I took two penalties. The first one was intentional (I actually did write a piece of advice, it's in my confessional, but I didn't want to post it because I wanted to look as harmless as possible. Guess the spies finally got wise to my act.
I BLAME YOUR BURG POSTING TWIST SAM!!!! Or possibly the spies thinking that I had the real protective role that Iris claimed? If they wanted to shut me up about that, they're in for a shock when it's revealed that I didn't have it.I had a specific strategy coming into this game, which was to try and appear as harmless as possible. To a certain extent it worked, but there are things that you can't really do anything about. (The spies might think you have a role for example.) If I failed at any point, and I'm sure I did, I can't think where specifically it was at the moment. But don't worry, I'll be obsessing about it until the end of the game so I'll be bound to come up with something.
I'm proud of what I personally, and the citizens as a team, managed to achieve here. I lasted five exiles and, if Iris is a spy, I not only managed to vote for only one citizen (sorry, Yvette!) but also was part of groups that got three scum exiled - four if you count Jaya, although I was on the wrong side of that one in every sense!Thirdly, if you could post my entire time capsule entry, of which NONE is copied and pasted btw (yes, it's even my own recipes!) then I'd love to see the reactions, especially Tibby's.
I have a few choice words to say to people, especially as I didn't want to post in the burg any more than I could. Let's start with the eliminated players.
Faith - I wish we'd been able to talk more. That's the one bad part of an AIM-rationing strategy, it doesn't allow you to get to know everyone like you'd like to. I think I know who you are now and I'd be interested to see if I was right about that one. All I can say is you had one of the best exits of anybody in any Spies game yet. Major props.
Ed - I think you made a great sounding-board for me towards the end. Why the spies imprisoned you I don't know, although I posted my theory in the burg; but like Faith, I wish we'd had more time to get to know one another. You seemed like a cool guy who knew his stuff.
Donald - I only caught onto you in literally the last half hour. But sometimes it's enough.
Gabriela - props, girl, you had a lot of people fooled into thinking you were brainless and naive, when I think by the end we all acknowledged you were anything but. (Well not me - I knew all along!) I never quite bought the act, and it seems that the spies didn't either. But then, I don't suppose they bought my act.
Yvette - Jason, who could very well be a dirty spy, had me SO CONFUSED. I was doubting myself over Levi (big mistake) and in the end I went with my strategy and voted for the person who, although I wasn't convinced was a spy, looked like the best person to vote to ensure my survival.
We didn't talk much but you seemed pretty damn awesome, not a megabitch AT ALL fyi, and I'm really really sorry about what happened to you.Mei Yun - although we only talked once or twice, I would've loved to have seen more of you. I'm not surprised the spies saw you as a threat. I did myself. You had a great sense of humour and I'll remember you for that.
Paris - I had you NAILED. Why didn't you play for the final five, then vote with the remaining two spies? It was WAY too early to show your hand. Still, nice try.
Jaya - I had you nailed from the start, then I let you go! I still think it was more your cluelessness than your cunning that fooled me, but hey... take what you can get.
Robert - wish I could've spoken to you more, but the chats you posted in the burg made it look like you were pretty damn dedicated. Respect, bro.
Almathea - check your mail. Mine's the one with the big heart on the cover.
And finally, Callahan... never knew anything about you, but I know how much it sucks to be exiled first.
Living players then...
Rey, Tibby, Jenya. It looks like they're finally onto us.
Keep it real guys, and bring it home. Tibby, there's a little something in my time capsule for you.Ariel - girl, you need to LOOSEN UP A LITTLE! But boy, are you playing this game!
Kirsten - KICK SOME SPY BUTT FOR ME. I gave you some serious help with Donald and possibly got myself imprisoned in the process. Now you frikkin' OWE me!
Boris - you are one funny guy and you play a mean game of checkers.
Khaled - if you're not a spy, you are one of the weirdest brain-men I've ever met. But sometimes weird-intelligent is good. Whatever you're doing, keep it up.
Levi - I still think you're a spy. But you are one helluva personality and I think you're doing great at this game, whichever side you're on. Good luck with your hosting!
Jason - if you're a spy, great job. If you're a citizen, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING??!!!
Everyone else - wish I could've seen enough of you to write something witty about you here.
Nooooow... the interesting part. Suspects.
I think there is one spy, probably only one spy, who's generally accepted to be a citizen (and I mean more than Levi is). That choice at the moment would be JASON. Since helping to bandwagon Almathea, he's done nothing. He's the most suspicious guy in the burg but nobody sees it because they've all written him off. If he's a spy, he'll be tough to beat, but the relentless tide of his spy-actions must surely tip someone off eventually! The trouble is, I never got to tell anyone that Jason got the "role investigation". It could be that his fellow spies voted for him, just like I did.
Maybe I was imprisoned to shut me up about that? Also his case on Paris looks like a bit of pre-emptive defence for when Paris turns up citizen... and he credits others for Yvette, maybe because he thinks she's a spy and wants to safeguard himself, or maybe because he knows she's not.There's more evidence against Jason than against anybody else. But there's also a huge fact from the first episode in his favour as well. Still, I can't find anyone who claims to have seen him really go after Almathea until right before the first exile...
LEVI... I think the exile was supposed to be between Levi and Mirela / Ed. I don't think the spies expected Donald to come into it, let alone be exiled, which is probably why Amelia voted for Donald as high as she did (if she's a spy). I don't think he can last much longer but he's done a good job of getting this far. I could be utterly wrong about this but I don't think so.
I'm inclining towards one or both of BORIS and GEORGIA being a spy, and one of BORIS and LEVI being a spy. If Boris is a spy, Levi probably isn't and Georgia might be. I don't want Boris to be a spy, but he can't be ruled out. Georgia I simply don't know enough about, but her top two of Levi and Donald makes me trust her more than others do. Again though, she's a contender. Again, if Georgia is a spy, Levi probably isn't and vice versa.
IRIS could be a citizen scrambling to survive, or a spy. If she's a citizen, you have to explain AMELIA's suggestion that she got the imprisonment save. The most obvious solution to that would be that they're both spies. On the other hand, if the spies thought I had the protective role, they might have imprisoned me to stop me from telling people that I, and not Iris, actually gave it to Amelia. In which case Iris may or may not be a spy, and Amelia certainly isn't.
AMELIA is the kind of person who it's very difficult to rule out. Her defence of Iris looks extremely fishy if Iris is a spy, and practically clears her if Iris turns out to be a cit. I've leant spy from day one for Amelia, and I'm going to stick to that now.
WILLIAM... I've leant cit for a while. He could be the classic UTR spy, but I really don't think that his Donald votes are a set-up, and his burg posts look innocent enough. I could be wrong and I wouldn't be surprised if I was, just annoyed.
MIRELA has been a big suspect as well. I'm leaning citizen but she's done things that I've found suspicious. If she's a spy I wouldn't be at all surprised.
KHALED too... theoretically he's a big suspect, but he's got one helluva cover if he is. Add that to his early attacks on Iris and I think he's genuine, if a bit misguided. Would I be surprised if he was a spy? Not in the slightest, although I'd commend him on one helluva citizen persona.
OSWALD I have a small question mark over - his challenge performance was crap - but I'll go with the crowd here. He's a likely cit.
All the rest are 90% or better citizens. I'd love to think that someone like Kirsten has everyone fooled, and that's always a possibility. But I don't think so in this case. If there's a spy in the rest of 'em, he or she has me fooled.
Who do I think the spies are? I'm gonna say... IRIS, AMELIA, LEVI and JASON. Funnily enough, that's also the order in which I think they'll be exiled. Even if one or two citizens go down first. As a second choice I'd go with IRIS, AMELIA, KHALED and BORIS, because I can never choose just one list when two will do.
If Iris turns out to be a scared cit instead of a nasty spy, Amelia's innocent, which means more male spies, Mirela or Georgia.I'd have worked it all out as the exiles went down. Unfortunately I won't be there to see it.
One more thing, Sam. I know you and I, as usual, have clashed (a little). And I know I promised you three pages of praise for this game. Well, this probably won't be three full pages, but I'll do my best.
Let me quote myself from some of the pre-game posts:
"Respect the host."
"Don't get personal."
"What this shows is that Sam is FAIR."
You see, it genuinely surprises me that so few people, when giving out advice about how to play ORGs like this one, mention the host. After all, you guys (hosts) are pretty much integral to the whole ORG experience, right?
I always say stuff like this, no matter what game I'm in. While I've disagreed with hosts, including yourself, I try never to overstep a certain line. I always try to treat hosts with respect; to take their games seriously; to not take the piss when it comes to penalties etc (don't know if I quite managed that this time unfortunately, but the intention was there); and generally to act in the way that I'd want players in an ORG I hosted, if I ever did host one, to act.
Why? It's not just because it's more pleasant or more fun that way (although it is). It's because I don't ever want to make a host as good, as dedicated, as fair and as generally excellent as you are feel that it's "not worth it anymore". Very very few people could do what you do - I don't think that I could. And maybe a tenth of those people, the ones who could do it, have ever managed to do it a quarter as well as you do it.
This has easily been the best Spies game so far, and that's saying a lot. The cast has been fantastic, the hosting has been top-notch, the design has been almost flawless to a level that I don't think you've ever reached before. The only thing I'm worried about is: how the hell are you going to top this one for Spies 7?
I'll finish by saying what I started with: This has been, in terms of pure fun, the best spies game for me by a long mile. Thanks so so so much for the opportunity to be part of it with all of these fantastic players and a wonderful host.
David, alias Ellis, out, for the final time, at least until I post my final AIM convos from exile night, and you let me into the losers' lounge.
