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Post by Judge Sam on Jun 20, 2009 7:02:54 GMT -5
For this Episode you will protect someone from Exile. The person you pick cannot be voted for at this Episode. This will be announced in the Burg.
Deadline is stated in the topic title.
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 20, 2009 14:33:43 GMT -5
Sorry, Sam, I'm afraid I'm busy from now til 8:44AM Monday. Can you please push the deadline a minute or two later? Thanks.
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Post by Judge Sam on Jun 21, 2009 7:26:48 GMT -5
haha.
but er, I have no idea why I wrote Monday on there, since night actions are due before Imprisonment and Imprisonment is 2:00 PM CDT Sunday. That would sound like a good lie but it's just a stupid flub by me. Since I gave you the wrong time if you see this before Imprisonment goes up could you post your choice? Sorry about that.
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Jun 21, 2009 13:01:22 GMT -5
No protection this time. The only person I'd protect is Amelia, and:
1) She might be a stupid spy
2) If I protect her it gives me away as the Exile protector, because I've defended her to some people
3) It might confuse the Cits, making them think Exile protector is a spy role
I'm thinking she's a cit though.. we'll see.
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DC
Alumni
Yves is my butt-monkey
Posts: 321 
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Post by DC on Aug 24, 2009 11:59:15 GMT -5
With each new Jenya thread I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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Post by Ellis on Aug 24, 2009 17:01:34 GMT -5
With each new Jenya thread I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Well I expect Jason would choose the "cry" option. Of course, Jason would cry if a fly landed on his arm, so you can't go too much on that.  |
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Post by Jason on Aug 24, 2009 18:27:59 GMT -5
Flies can bring a horde of deadly diseases!
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Post by Mei Yun on Aug 24, 2009 23:42:59 GMT -5
With each new Jenya thread I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Jenya Confessional or Burg Posts? |
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Aug 25, 2009 2:38:02 GMT -5
With each new Jenya thread I don't know whether to laugh or cry. DC, I can certainly understand why you'd cry--you seemed to have about the same opinions I did at the time: I am 85% sure Georgia and Mirela are Spies. Faith is a citizen. I think Tiberius, Ariel, and Pete are. I've had a change of heart and will say for now that I think Amelia and Georgia are citizens. So that leaves me with Boris, Mirela, and a mysterious third. TBD. - The person in the citizen column who I am most wary of now is Levi - I want to clear Rey, but I can't bring myself to do it just yet.. You wavered on Amelia, trusted Jason and Pete, and your next three big suspects were Levi, Rey and Boris. You were wrong on Mirela, Georgia and Thor too. I think I only suspected Georgia of those three, and not heavily. I'd suggest you laugh instead of cry though. We had a lot of fun even though we didn't win. And maybe if we'd had a few more good citizens like you instead of some of our dead weight, we'd have caught Jason and Pete after all. Oh, and I didn't protect her from Exile, and the Burg exiled Thor instead of Amelia. Can't really blame me for that one... if I hadn't been fake-imprisoned I definitely would have defended Thor. |
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DC
Alumni
Yves is my butt-monkey
Posts: 321
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Post by DC on Aug 25, 2009 8:57:45 GMT -5
The difference between you and me is you were actually in the game, as a citizen role holder, with tons of inside information and direct contact with other players, and I was just casually reading message board posts. Thank you.
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Post by Mei Yun on Aug 25, 2009 15:07:55 GMT -5
The difference between you and me is you were actually in the game, as a citizen role holder, with tons of inside information and direct contact with other players, and I was just casually reading message board posts. Thank you.  |
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Post by Judge Sam on Aug 25, 2009 15:47:54 GMT -5
And yet, as Brian / Kirsten has said many times, he is easily able to pick out the scum in forum mafia games but when you add in the tons of information and personal interaction of AIM chats it makes it exponentially harder.
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Jenya
Jenya
Knew Something Was Off About That Emo Freak...
Posts: 7
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Post by Jenya on Aug 25, 2009 17:31:40 GMT -5
The difference between you and me is you were actually in the game, as a citizen role holder, with tons of inside information and direct contact with other players, and I was just casually reading message board posts. Thank you. Yes, and considering that this is the thread about my Exile protect Episode 7, I'll just point out that I made the right decision. I didn't protect the spy who I thought might be a Cit, because I wasn't the least bit sure about her and wanted to keep the Citizens' options open. Do you believe that was the right decision? At this point in the game, I'd: * Voted Almathea, Spy * Protected Rey, Citizen, from Imprisonment * Recommended voting Jaya, Spy * Protected Rey, Citizen, from Exile 3 * Led a case on Yvette, Citizen * Protected Rey and Ariel, Citizens, from Imprisonment * Voted Donald, Spy * Protected Mirela, Citizen under fire, from Exile 5 * Recommended NOT voting Faith, Citizen * Voted Iris, Spy at Exile 5 * Voted Iris, Spy, at Exile 6 * Recommended AGAINST voting William or Thor at Exile 7 So at this point I'd made one big mistake and twelve correct decisions at Exile/Imprisonment. I think my play was actually pretty good up to this point in the game. |
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Post by Kirsten on Aug 25, 2009 20:07:58 GMT -5
And yet, as Brian / Kirsten has said many times, he is easily able to pick out the scum in forum mafia games but when you add in the tons of information and personal interaction of AIM chats it makes it exponentially harder. True that. I think Jenya had played well up to this point in the game as well. As had I. After this is where it all falls apart. |
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Post by Mei Yun on Aug 25, 2009 20:40:54 GMT -5
And yet, as Brian / Kirsten has said many times, he is easily able to pick out the scum in forum mafia games but when you add in the tons of information and personal interaction of AIM chats it makes it exponentially harder. I don't understand this. It is understood that agreed that information, events, AIM chats votes, surveys are ways for Spies to slip up and are pro-town. I don't see why being IN the game would give you a handicap in figuring out the Spies. Though again, the said things add a layer to Citizens slipping up and Spy manipulation, I don't see why release of new information would do more harm for the Citizens than good. |
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Post by Kirsten on Aug 25, 2009 21:17:46 GMT -5
And yet, as Brian / Kirsten has said many times, he is easily able to pick out the scum in forum mafia games but when you add in the tons of information and personal interaction of AIM chats it makes it exponentially harder. I don't understand this. It is understood that agreed that information, events, AIM chats votes, surveys are ways for Spies to slip up and are pro-town. I don't see why being IN the game would give you a handicap in figuring out the Spies. Though again, the said things add a layer to Citizens slipping up and Spy manipulation, I don't see why release of new information would do more harm for the Citizens than good. Signal to noise ratio. If you replaced into a game on mafia scum, do you think you would have a better chance of finding scum in a 10 page game where people are contributing with valid posts and information or an 150 page game where people are joking around, commenting about their day, discussing topics irrelevant to the game, and likewise a game where well over 50% of the information involved takes place privately? The 150 page thread has 15 times more information, but it's also 15 times harder to pick out the valuable information out of it. I played in 4 games as town during the duration of Spies6. During that period I lynched 1 town player and incorrectly pegged 1 town player but was night killed. I lynched 7 scum players, and had correctly pegged 4 additional scum players that I did not have an opportunity to lynch because I was killed off. It was seriously the best town play I have ever done. Out of the 13 players I voted to lynch/pegged for following days 11 were scum. That's a rate of roughly 90% correctness. Compare that with spies6. I pegged Donald and Iris. I pegged Amelia but ended up changing my mind on her. I voted for 6 consecutive citizens in a row before finally settling on Pete when it was unfortunately too late. My hit rate was well under 50% Sure, this is personal evidence, but I think it's valid evidence. More information is not a strict benefit to the town. It entirely depends on what the information is. In spies, I suffer from overload of information and struggle to piece together exactly what is relevant and what is fluff. Over the course of the game, I compiled and presented enough evidence that would have absolutely nailed Jason to the wall as scum, but it was too scattered and mixed in with too much noise and it got lost in the shuffle. |
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Post by Mei Yun on Aug 26, 2009 10:56:52 GMT -5
The noise you are referring to in you reply above refers to things that we should NOT look into the first place (jokes, RL comments, irrelevant things). Shouldn't we discount those things as being useful on first sight? Also, isn't it also the responsibility of the Citizens to keep the "irrelevant noise" down as you guys scum hunt? And with you lasting in this season, would you put "blame" on "irrelevant noisy" players who lead you to wrong Exiles?
(I just want you to clarify on your answer.)
The thing is, I have been a Spy before and every event makes me think how to get away from it with getting my hands clean while giving advantage to the Spies. Again, supporting that more information/revelations requires new strategies for a Spy maneuver that is consistent to how you are playing at the moment. Failure to do so risk you in being outed, not to mention the ever dreaded "typing in the wrong chat/forum" mistake that could happen.
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DC
Alumni
Yves is my butt-monkey
Posts: 321
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Post by DC on Aug 26, 2009 12:08:39 GMT -5
Personally, I disagree with Brian. I can't scumhunt past 2 pages of message board posts - after that it all becomes "blah blah blah, tl;dr". AIM makes things exponentially easier for me. I'm also interested in the answer to Ross's last question.
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Post by Kirsten on Aug 26, 2009 14:30:54 GMT -5
The noise you are referring to in you reply above refers to things that we should NOT look into the first place (jokes, RL comments, irrelevant things). Shouldn't we discount those things as being useful on first sight? Of course. Nobody considers that useful. Here's my point: Let's say Jason makes one scummy error in chats with me. Is it easier to find that error if we've had one chat, or 50 chats? Also, isn't it also the responsibility of the Citizens to keep the "irrelevant noise" down as you guys scum hunt? Yes, but it's simply impossible to do so in practice, nor would I or anyone else want to. The game is much more fun if you can joke around and have a good time while trying to catch spies. Irrelevant noise, though, doesn't apply just to things that aren't game relevant. Here is an example. Jenya posted those huge threads on every single player in the game. For every accusation she leveled at a citizen, it becomes noise and a distraction from finding the true scum. Let's say I take time to attack Gretchen over something that I think might lead somewhere. It doesn't. That's a waste of time, and it creates noise. Is it easier to pick out 1 lie in 3 statements, or 33 lies in 100 statements? The latter gives you a much larger room for error. And with you lasting in this season, would you put "blame" on "irrelevant noisy" players who lead you to wrong Exiles? No. The blame is on my own shoulders. There are factors as to why I was wrong, but ultimately I decided to place those votes. None of the citizens I exiled played badly to where I blame them for being exiled. The thing is, I have been a Spy before and every event makes me think how to get away from it with getting my hands clean while giving advantage to the Spies. Again, supporting that more information/revelations requires new strategies for a Spy maneuver that is consistent to how you are playing at the moment. Failure to do so risk you in being outed, not to mention the ever dreaded "typing in the wrong chat/forum" mistake that could happen. I understand to some extent. While I have never been a spy in spies5 (Angus!), I recently finished a game as scum that was an 150 page thread. There is no risk of typing in the wrong chat, but there is always the fear that someone is going to bust you after you played well for 135 pages, etc. Theoretically, it seems like more information should be good for the town, but practically it rarely works out like that. Now, more information IS good for the town if the townies are capable of correctly sifting through that information and picking out what is useful from what is useless, but that is easier said than done. In spies, it's even harder, because there is simply not enough time to even go through all the information. There is endless amount of information that is constantly leaking through the cracks, because no one (not even me) has enough time to evaluate it all. I'm sure it is possible for townies to use this information strictly to their advantage. My personal experiences suggest otherwise, but that could simply mean that I myself am not good at doing this, not that it's a trend. I'd wager most people are like me, though, and the overload of information simply obfuscates things more than it clears them. --- This is evidenced in previous spies games where players in the loser's lounge have been able to peg the scum correctly from only seeing what happens in the burg, while players in the game wander around "aim"lessly. DC is a top tier spies player, but she was insanely more accurate in this game from the viewers lounge than she was in spies5 as a player. Why is this? I'd argue because the viewers and people in the loser's lounge are getting an objective view of the game and aren't being subjected to the emotions, and noise that the actual players are being bombarded with constantly. |
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Post by Kirsten on Aug 26, 2009 14:32:24 GMT -5
Personally, I disagree with Brian. I can't scumhunt past 2 pages of message board posts - after that it all becomes "blah blah blah, tl;dr". AIM makes things exponentially easier for me. I'm also interested in the answer to Ross's last question. I think this is your perception more than the actual reality. We floundered around a lot in spies5 together (whether you choose to believe so or not, it's the truth) and you were brutally accurate from the viewers lounge this game. |
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Post by Jason on Aug 26, 2009 14:50:59 GMT -5
Jenya's back!!
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Post by Mei Yun on Aug 26, 2009 14:52:59 GMT -5
But she's stuck in this thread. So get her out of her prison cell! |
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