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Post by Judge Sam on Jul 15, 2009 10:53:39 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about this separation between viewers thing (public grounds / spy lounge / citizen lounge / alumni forum) haha. On one hand it sucks because all the time cool stuff is posted in one forum I'd like the others to see. One the other hand, I like the difference of opinions. In the loser's lounge specifically I notice everyone seems to coalesce around the same hive-mind opinions when they enter the LL as opposed to their differing opinions in teh game. Definitely something I'm going to think about in the future.
Anyway I am going to start off by posting cool things from the citizen loser's lounge in here for you guys to read so let's start....
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Post by Judge Sam on Jul 15, 2009 10:59:35 GMT -5
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DC
Alumni
Yves is my butt-monkey
Posts: 321 
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Post by DC on Jul 15, 2009 11:51:16 GMT -5
Regarding the difference between the citizen losers and the alumni:
I think that Casey, x-man, and I are usually on some kind of the same page, but we're not in a group mindset. We've never had to function as a unit, or had to agree on anything. The 3 of us right now, for example, all agree Mirela is a Spy, but have differing ideas for who the last Spy is.
Furthering the lack of groupthink is the fact that all 3 of us have very different playstyles:
- Casey definitely follows his heart and pays more attention to vibes than words. Note: I'm not saying this is bad. He's learning to play a more well-rounded game though.
- x-man I think pays a lot of attention to what's going on right now. He's good at noting how people interact with each other - I think this is his biggest game strength. He's also less stubborn than I am - he'll change his mind without feeling like he has to stick to his original ideas.
- I'm less prone to give up on an idea - I've thought Mirela was a Spy since what seems like forever, and dagnabit, I'm not going to back off until she flips (hiding this fervent attachment to an idea is one reason why people had a hard time identifying that I was spies4Summer). My playstyle's kind of a little of everything but I think I'm more facts-based and aware of past events than x-man or Casey.
Regarding the Loser Lounge dump:
- Tell Almathea my Spy list had PARIS, not Thor. But I LOLed. I also can't tell from it who the last 2 Spies are, so good for her on that.
- ROFLMAO at Mei Yun's second photoshop, and at the Gigi comment in her first. That is so great. I can't even describe.
- I loved Faith's first video. LOL the losers totally think Jenya is a Spy. And Mirela. Yessssss Mirelaspy.
And Paris is in the Spy lounge, eh? My guess was you were going to put him with the citizens to protect the remaining Spies.
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DC
Alumni
Yves is my butt-monkey
Posts: 321
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Post by DC on Jul 15, 2009 13:00:15 GMT -5
Okay, thinking it over, I'm not sure if Almathea's board is supposed to mock me or mock the citizens in general. It could go either way.
On Almathea's board I don't get the icons for:
Jocelyn
Levi
Georgia
Tiberius
Ariel
William
Kirsten
Mei Yun
The others are pretty clear!
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Post by sluticia on Jul 15, 2009 18:21:50 GMT -5
I definitely latch onto my heart and that's what makes me such a poor mafia player. In real life I try to be nice to everyone and think everyone's kind-hearted so the aspect of mafia doesn't flow well with me. I also come from the online world of social orgs where in the end you're only looking out for yourself and trying to advance yourself further.
But it's still fun to play.
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Post by Judge Sam on Jul 16, 2009 7:16:22 GMT -5
Rey: Just this morning, our investigators discovered a new species of Ovis Aries.  Meet the Tibbysheep. LIMITED TIME OFFER - Get them while supplies last!Caution: May be prone to anger when frustrated. Batteries not included.Was I really that much of a sheep? by Tiberius. I was thinking about this and I gotta say... no I really wasn't. Let Tibby explain Alma - I was THERE when Almathea freaked out. It's hardly sheepiness that noticed how spyish that was. Rey, you voiced your suspicions of her to me early, but I didn't consider her a top suspect for me until I signed on day of. First, Jason told me about the case as it stood, and invited me to chat to talk about it. The evidence was steep, and so I was highly considering exiling her at that point, but I didn't lay down my vote till I saw her freak out first hand.
This is also back in the days when people were actually calling me a leader 
Jaya- I signed on day of exile uninformed, so I decided COMING IN that I was voting Jaya . The only person I knew for sure, from my recollection, that was voting for her too was Thor. But I decided that with my limited information at the time that since Jaya voted alongside Alma it just made sense, so I did it. I had no idea there would be so many votes for her at the time.
Yvette - I came up with my own personal case on her the night after Jaya's exile when I was lying in bed thinking. The next day me and Jason were talking and we talked about Yvette and found that we had noticed many of the same things with her. So I asked who should post the case and Jason said he would. Turns out he and Jenya had discussed it way before that, and that a lot of my ideas from the discussion weren't even included in the case that was posted. For example, the idea that the Robert Trap was a plan to protect Ed because Yvette and Ed were spy partners. That's an idea I came up with on my own... it was wrong, but I came up with it!!
Levi - Yeah, so here's one I can really honestly say was sheepish of me, because I voted for Levi because "the Levi case seems strong" without doing any of my own investigative work on the matter or talking to Levi.
But even here I did something on my own and followed my own convictions even if they were wrong. I found the Donald case so weak at the time that I refused to vote for him and put him insanely low on my list because I so ant-believed in it. So much that I couldn't stand the idea of actually exiling Donald. So again, my own convictions.
Faith - Took my vote off her at the last second because a converastion I had with her in private felt so citizenish to me. I suppose it was... sheepish to not discuss that fact with anyone else and try to stop her exile, but not only was I not around at the right times to do that people like Ariel [was it Ariel? Might have been Jenya] and Khaled were stuck on the idea that because William and Iris both claimed roles that it HAD to be Faith. But I didn't vote for Faith in the end, I voted for Georgia. I could have tried harder to stop the Faith thing from going down, but there wasn't much I could do, and I did discuss the fact that I wasn't sure about it anymore with people.
Iris - Everyone but a very few were sheep this round. Not voting for Iris that round would have been stupid for sure. No sheeplynes shere.
Thor - Stuck by the idea that there's no way that Amelia could possibly be a citizen. I don't know and will never know if I would have sheeped onto Thor had I been on AIM the day of, but I did vote for Amelia due to my own convictions on the matter nonetheless.
Rey - Didn't fight hard enough, but if you look back I did indeed fight. I sad things, I brought up ideas noone else did, for example the whole "it's just his personality guys" thing, and in the end decided that because it was consensus exile and the Rey case seemed strong enough to just not block. However, this round I really did let myself get convinced here.
Amelia - And here I almost let myself be swayed away from my own convictions by the over analyzers who kept preventing the Amelia exile for two rounds. I didn't know. I stuck by my guns in the end and said "fuck it there's no way I'm letting Boris be the next Rey/Thor, no way in hell". And so I dropped the boot on Amelia.
So overall, out of all the exiles I was there for I only did explicitly sheepish things in TWO of them.
So really, overall I think my sheep characterization was pretty unfair here. I may never have taken the reigns and led things on my own, but I didn't follow people blindly either. If I were a sheep, I'da let Rey convince me of Pete! If I were a sheep, I probably would have voted Boris [and still be in the game lol] too.
So I disagree. I think I did some sheeply things, but I don't like that it's become part of my legacy in this game when it really wasn't a big of a thing as people make it out to be.
Noted. I'll just quit, then. I miss Yvette anyway. Oh how I love you so. I dream of the day you will arrive at my doorstep and we will flee together to the lovely retreat of a mountain. Together we will build a cottage, and be surrounded by our friends. Gabriela will visit us daily with cookies, and Gretchen will eat from the muffin tree over by the forest. Of course, Mei Yun and Robert will have picnics with us in the afternoons, and we will live a happy wondrous set of lives together. How I miss you so. With that said, do not give up my darling! I am living vicariously through your shocking survival in this game, you must continue on! At the same time, come to me dear! But don't! Oh, the torn devil that is love!
Poll Question: At this point, which side do you think will win?
Poll Status:
If you had not started this thread, results for this poll would have been hidden until you had voted.
Citizens [************************************] (9 votes, 90%)
Spies [****] (1 vote, 10%)
Mei Yun photoshop:
img15.imageshack.us/img15/2876/jenyabus.jpg
Sam: Poor Citizenship
Okay so like here's the thing, after the game is over people are going to be like "wow some Spies sucked, they shoulda done this and that and why didn't they do this and that wow just wow." Okay regardless whether or not I agree with that, I think equal focus needs to be placed on the Citizens.  Maybe just because there are more of them, or poor citizen play isn't that interesting, but people tend to overlook that. So I'd like to point out dead citizens which, maybe underperformed. I'm sure that's going to be a popular subject here in the loser's lounge lol! Anyway, not trying to make anyone mad and I  you all, I'm just pointing out ways to improve play like I would point out ways Spies can lie better. Khaled - I know this is not the best welcome and Khaled is an awesome mafia player. In fact the board where he was recruited from he is very well-known for extreme intelligence, rational thought, smart play, all that good stuff. I played a few games there, once a long time ago he totally fooled me scum. Anyway so I guess it's just those really high hopes I had in this game were not realized here which is why his particular case was disappointing.  I realize that his reports take forever, and this game requires a lot of time, and I'm sure he was busy with real life stuff. Plus probably those reports weren't that fun to do and this is a game about having fun. Butttttttt... even with those excuses, it doesn't really excuse the fact that he rarely spent time looking for mafia. If the Report system, while incredibly unique, was taking too long and too boring, then you needed to find another way to play the game and find Spies. Not just abandon the endeavor all together lol. Ariel - Ariel did really good at the start and end of her game but, to be forthright, her play in the middle was nearly non-existant. I'm not saying people have to delve through every single posted chat and all the 5,000+ posts in the Burg every Episode to catch inconsistencies. You could interview people on AIM like Levi, you could gather information into lists like a few people did, you could create elaborate gambits to catch Spies like a few people haha. Like I said with Khaled, it isn't "hours of research or nothing." And Ariel did what amounts to relatively little spy-hunting for a large portion of the game. William - a lot of the same things apply with William. Again I'm not saying it was all 100% bad with these people they did do lots of amazing things, unearthed evidence, contributed to the game, etc. I'm just pointing out things. What else, Faith was busy during the first part of the game. Again, not angry / accusing, sorry for all the disclaimers, I'm turning into Tiberius.  And of course there is enough of this remaining with Citizens still in the game, which I would love to point out but can't atm! Your thoughts? 
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DC
Alumni
Yves is my butt-monkey
Posts: 321
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Post by DC on Jul 16, 2009 8:26:46 GMT -5
Heh, the host keeping players' egos in check.
Here's the way I see this game: You had some horrible Citizens and you had some horrible Spies. The citizens lucked out though that all the best and dedicated mafia players were assigned citizen alignments. This made the Citizens look like the stronger group, because they had some really strong people pulling them along.
But now, with only 7 Citizens left, the flaws are really showing. No one in this group - heck, let's expand it to include the past few rounds - with the exceptions of Kirsten and Jenya, has done particularly well this game. They were carried, IMHO, by players like Rey, Gabriela, Mei Yun, Ellis, and Kirsten & Jenya themselves, the dominance of Yvette, and the luck/challenge skill of Ariel (and might have been by Callahan and Robert if they had had a chance, and Paris too, with his 100% vote-for-Spies record LOL).
I could go through the player list like you did and discuss the flaws of the imprisoned/exiled citizens, and maybe I will in the post-game, especially once I read the confessionals and have a better idea of what went on. But I do expect to see more of the Spy bashing, even though I agree with Sam that many Citizens played poor games too.
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