Post by Judge Sam on Jul 16, 2009 6:56:24 GMT -5
I always wanted to do one of these.
Basically some people still are not convicend on why Jenya is a Spy. As one of the early people who are eliminated, I have limited information on how the game was played for the last few episodes. However, every time I read Jenya's posts in the Burg, I grow more and more suspicious of her. Not only she pushes suspicion on the most obvious Citizens (Kirsten/Rey) but her defense of other Spies are effective and at the same time subtle. I believe she is one of the more dangerous Spies this series has ever seen and it may take some people a second look, or a summary like this to actually give serious consideration that Jenya is a spy.
Without further ado, here is a summary of her suspicious Burg posts. I have placed categories here that correspond to the different Spy behaviors she has done.
1. SPY KNOWLEDGE Thinks in a "Spy Perspective". Too much and sometimes too accurate.
2. PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE Passive-aggressive behavior towards hunting Spies. "OMG X is a spy but I am quite not sure". Also could refer to trying to rouse suspicion against somebody hoping that somebody else would run with it.
3. TAG-TEAM! Sometimes Spies would go out in a limb to help out each other. Noted here are some examples of that.
4. REVERSE PSYCH Sometimes you put up three or four points in one post, and you just cannot be wrong in ALL of them. And when you think about the reverse, it makes PERFECT sense.
5. CONTRADICTIONS Spies love doing them. It's what they do for a living, after all.
6. CITIZEN SUSPECTS Spies have to push seemingly strong cases against Citizens. Usually they sound firm and damning but sometimes is a product of soundbyting or word-twisting. This can be seen when they make an active push for Exile.
EXHIBIT A.
SPY KNOWLEDGE ,PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE
Here she tries to make us think how "she" as a spy would think. She is half-right on this post. She did raise strong concerns against Jaya, but then says she is unsure (Passive Aggressive bahavior). Then he rouses suspicions against Rey and Tiberius without hesitation or the "unsure" aspect.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=625#2135
EXHIBIT B
SPY KNOWLEDGE, TAG-TEAM!
Robert's early case on Jenya. It was never addressed properly by Jenya. It was also shut down by Almathea as "shit case".
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=577&page=1#2587
EXHIBIT C
REVERSE PSYCH
That's why Robert was voted out. Not because he was one of several people to find Almathea suspicious. But because Robert was committed to exiling Yvette soon. He repeated it four times just to me, so I'm sure he told everyone that was his intention.
Either Robert was killed to keep him from leading an exile on Yvette, or he was killed to make us think that's why he was killed. It's our job to decide which is the truth.
One thought.. if the spies wanted Yvette exiled, they could have just left Robert alive to lead it. So perhaps the Spies didn't want Yvette exiled. 
EXHIBIT D
SPY KNOWLEDGE, CONTRADICTIONS
He mentions that the words of Robert were "fake cases". She also mentions here why Robert was Imprisoned. Read it, and it will make sense. (Yvette is now gone, Faith went before Iris.) That plan caught a spy and it threatened them.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=663#3575
But then uses his own words to clear herself
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=741#3515
EXHIBIT E
PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE
Translation: I suspect Iris, but not really!
It's extremely unlikely that I will vote for Jason, Ellis or Gabriela. I have a decent amount of confidence that they are good guys. Moreso with Jason and Ellis, but pretty decent vibes from Gabs, with whom I think I've spoken a little less.
I have questions about Levi, Paris and Faith. Nothing clear cut, but circumstantial evidence has been accumulating.
I am confused about why Iris would go along with her group's plan, not vote Callahan, and not really try to save him. I need to find her thought processes from last Thursday.
Amelia, Boris, Mirela, Oswald I don't know much about at all. Boris seems to have decent judgments, but they also match the popular consensus.
Mei Yun I don't know much about but she is pretty aggressive and a motivator, which is a good thing if she is a cit.
I have a few hints that Khaled might be a good guy but I don't know him that well and we need to talk a lot more.
EXHIBIT F
PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE, CITIZEN SUSPECTS
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=890#3683
TRANSLATION: Oswald and Mei could be Spies together, but let's go for Oswald!
Like I said, Mei, that was a pretty small deal and maybe not even worth mentioning.
But you just did, bitch!
EXHIBIT G
TOTALLY WRONG. DISTURBINGLY WRONG.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=922#4603
EXHIBIT H
SPY KNOWLEDGE
Bye, Mei Yun. I wish we'd gotten to talk more.
You seemed like you knew what you were doing. You should definitely post your spy guesses in your confessional and we'll see if you were right after the game.
EXHIBIT I
TAG-TEAM!, CITIZEN SUSPECTS
Donald.Trumped thread. Jenya protects Donald, then put the conversation against Kirsten and Georgia (which almost hijacked the thread). Notice how the other, weaker spies distanced themselves from Donald while Jenya, skillfully tries do divert attention from the Donald case. Thank God, Faith puts it back on track.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=971#5749
EXHIBIT J
SPY KNOWLEDGE
Very fitting for the letter "J". I think this is one of the more creepingly accurate ones.
It's almost definitely a spy role, considering Boss McNeal's giving the orders.
And if they couldn't imprison other spies, they'd be a cop working against their own team. So I think it's pretty clear that they can imprison each other. A good time to do that would be when a spy's coming under suspicion and the spies want to keep them from getting in more trouble. Kind of like how Iris was starting to attract attention from voters, but now she's safely tucked away out of sight.
I guess the key is, was this an acting job by Iris?
spies6iris (7:53:42 PM): I need a drink, guys. I am so upset right now...I take this stuff too seriously, I've got tears in my eyes. Vote me out next week, I'm fucking useless as a Spy hunter.
If it's phony, then Iris is a spy being hidden by her spy friends. If it's real, then Iris is a citizen and the Spies jailed her to frame her. I definitely don't think they'd jail her to silence her or in fear of her spyhunting ability this game.
EXHIBIT K
SPY KNOWLEDGE, PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE, CITIZEN SUSPECTS
I also think that if Kirsten's a citizen, she's a much more logical choice to be jailed than "Iris the Citizen". Gabriela was Imprisoned for being right about Yvette, while Kirsten continues to walk free.
EXHIBIT L
THE DONALD VOTE
She publicly clears/give benefit of the doubt to Levi:
FIRST INSTANCE: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1387#7609
SECOND INSTANCE: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1238#6579
THIRD INSTANCE (subtle): spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1387#7564
Therefore she cannot vote for the alternative (Levi) for a Donald Exile. She also cannot throw a vote against Oswald because he is absent, that will be too self-preserving (like the Jocelyn Exile). All her other choices were Amelia and Donald. Mirela is a leading vote getter which also fits that she is also a Spy (but that's beside the point). Out of those three Spies, Donald had the strongest case against them. Jenya had to vote for him. She had no time (she claims to be gone for the weekend) to save anybody with a counter case, although she did try (see EXHIBIT I).
She also ignores William's case regarding this bussing by strawmanning it. Stating:
So you're thinking that I protected Donald in the thread Kirsten started, and then I placed a vote on my spypartner Donald before I left for the weekend of his exile? Sounds like a cut and dried case of busing to me, William. String me up, but be gentle. 
Also in that thread, she rouses suspicion again against Kirsten by implying that Kirsten and William were buddying.
EXHIBIT M
SPY KNOWLEDGE, TAG-TEAM!
M for Mei Yun!
(I am listing these things from a search of all her Burg posts. The letters are coincidental!)
I'm fairly certain that Robert was imprisoned to frame Yvette and the rest of her home girls.
So are you still pretty sure one of Faith, Iris is a spy?
I think Mei was imprisoned because a spy in Mei's small team demanded it. Someone got too much heat from Mei early in the game, and they wanted her gone.
Gabs was right about Yvette and spoke her mind, right about Donald and spoke her mind. Worth checking to see what else she was right about.
I think Ed was chosen because he was manipulatable by the spies in this current situation. If his imprisonment was not inevitable, I think the spies wanted someone they could control into not telling the burg their dilemma.
Right, Ariel?
Too accurate. Further, I noticed that my second team (not the first as Jenya would have implied it) had possibly FIVE SPIES in it:
IRIS
DONALD
AMELIA
JENYA
MIRELA
I talked to Oswald and Levi the most that round. Ellis quite a lot too. I openly "liked" Faith. Then despite that we Exiled Paris.
They were REALLY mad. And possibly they demanded my Imprisonment.
EXHIBIT N
SPY KNOWLEDGE
I'm going to put forward another crazy theory about Gabriela/Ed, as it's entirely possible Ed could have been saved in a different way than a standard doctor/protective role.
Did Gabriela get sent into the future in Imprisonment 3?
...
Maybe she tried to save someone from Imprisonment in the future. Maybe she told a spy about it, and the spy imprisoned her so she couldn't tell her story. Then maybe with future knowledge, the spies were able to imprison someone Gabs didn't choose, and feel secure about it since Gabs wasn't around any more to point the finger.
This is minor but what scares me here is that she is implying that Gabriela had a role (From what uninformed basis? Because of the flavor text Sam wrote?). Gabriela had a role, but it wasn't a SAVING role. Which makes me think that the Spies were confident, or worse, informed that they are killing people off with Roles. They could have even known that they have killed the Doctor.
EXHIBIT O
SPY KNOWLEDGE, CONTRADICTIONS
She is fairly informed of what Amelia does.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1387#7990
Further, she also strongly suspects Amelia here but never follows through with it. When Amelia gets suspected again, later, she them creates the greatest distraction from her inevitable Exile. This definitely a contradiction on her being aware and mindful on suspicious things other people have done. She skillfully swept this one under the rug.
EXHIBIT P
ROLEFISHING
Hi everyone.
It's time to talk a little about the roles people in the Burg are claiming to have. It's an especially important topic to raise right now considering that a candidate for Sunday's exile claimed a Citizen role and gave details that got her off the hook for a week. We'll need to evaluate her role alongside the rest of her behavior to determine whether or not she's telling the truth.
You may remember a few weeks back after we exiled Paris and I made a fuss about that being the 3rd spy in our original group of 11 and hoping that the rest of us were Cits. And then Sam smacked me with a rolled up newspaper and said "Wishful thinking, sister." Well, regardless, some people decided that they trusted certain people in our group a lot, and spilled role information to us. One thing led to another, and suddenly the whole Burg is bombarding Gabriela, Jason, Ellis, Pete, Tibby, Jenya and Rey with role information.
Now some of the things we know should probably be kept secret, but I think some of this information might help people make better votes. I think some of the roles we've been told could be citizen roles, and some possibly sound like spy roles. If you still have a role and haven't blabbed it to anyone, good for you, that's probably smart. If you don't have a role, be sure not to hint that you don't.. you all know the drill already.
So I think maybe people should post their suggestions about how we should handle the current situation. Should we post roles without the names of the people who hold them? Should we discuss whether particular roles sound like Cit or Spy roles so we don't have to make that decision in the last 5-10 minutes before exile? Obviously, any role that was told to someone in secret will remain secret unless the role's owner wants it made public, and only the details they want known will be made known.
Finally, one important fact I think it's appropriate to share. There's been one thing in common with all the roles we've found out about thus far.. there have been powerups given as a result of the Cits winning the Future Week challenge. Iris has claimed a role that didn't earn a powerup, and that's as good a place as any to begin discussion.
Another example of rolefishing can be seen here:
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=burg90999&thread=1756&page=1
EXHIBIT Q
JENYA'S FAKE IMPRISONMENT, CITIZEN SUSPECTS, CONTRADICTIONS
It prevents her from taking part from a possible Amelia exile but guess what happened? The Spies knew all about this and planned accordingly. Jenya fed MirelaSpy all her talking points against Thor and attempted to prevent an Amelia Exile. Jenya's false Imprisonment also allowed distrust to stem out of her fake role, which she skillfully used against Rey. If Rey is a spy, and he blabbed his role despite his Imprisonment, why would Rey blabbing her role make any difference?
Definitely a paradox.
Rey knew I could be a fake imprisonment and still blabbed my "role" all over the Burg.
It fits perfectly. And I'm so glad we lied about my "role" to Rey--I had a feeling that eventually it would catch him in sleazy behavior.
Let's exile him.
ps. he was the one who leaked my "role" to two people within a week of being told in strict confidentiality.
EXHIBIT R
CITIZEN SUSPECTS , TAG-TEAM!
R for Rey!!!
Clever distraction. Amidst growing suspicions of Amelia, Jenya comes back with a vengeance and creates three cases on the top Citizens: Ariel/Kirsten/Rey. This distraction helps Amelia to go under the radar, avoid any other additional questioning (making the case against her sound like a broken record), and eventually gets Rey exiled.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1742#10819
To summarize this clusterfuck distraction:
I'm pretty sure everyone is tired of debating Mirela vs. Levi vs. Amelia every week. It's time people talked about you guys and your suspicions for a change.
Call it "Jenya's Super Cits" week or whatever. Just do it please. I'll be dead and gone soon anyway.
She continues this crapshit with another thread: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=burg90999&thread=1742&page=2
And another: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1753#11160
And another: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1782#11246
She even refers Tibby to the Rey and Khaled cases: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=burg90999&thread=1832&page=1
And about Amelia? Zero.
This is a Spy working overtime I tell you.
EXHIBIT S
TAG-TEAM!
She effectively ignores Amelia's case here:
If you guys actually want to catch a spy, you should interview them and present your results. I don't get the sense that any of the people bitching about Amelia have even spoken with her or posted questions for her since she became a suspect three weeks ago.
But yes, let's point fingers at the people actually putting in the effort, because it's easy to point fingers from the comfort of the sofa.
Of course the Citizens have NOT asked questions for three episodes now. They also have NOT bothered inviting her to speak during Forum Mafia week and they have NOT talked to her on AIM obviously. Basically, Jenya is right that the Citizens are merely pointing fingers and that...
I wanted to see it debated. I never even posted my conclusions in the Rey is a Spy thread because I didn't want to post conclusions until everything got discussed. But we got screwed by the week off.
... the Amelia case has not been debated, even during Consensus Week! And of course the points against have never been mentioned, EVER.
Shouldn't the thread called "Fuck it, Amelia's a Spy No Questions Asked" at least present one piece of evidence against Amelia? I see zero in here right now.
Bonus points for two pieces of evidence against Amelia. Cookies if you have three. And a sticker on your forehead if you actually post interviews with the elusive starlet.
She is soooooooo, right.
And even when Tibby reiterates the case against Amelia, she sneakily adds a point against Khaled, while pushing his exile on another thread:
Are these the three points? You should really go into detail on them in this thread:
1. A citizen does not confirm a spy role
2. Role actions did not happen on day one, it was not a frame.
3. This is twice in a row now that Amelia has been saved by a counter case, NO CHANCE IN HELL she's a citizen.
Counterpoint to (1): I can confirm that Khaled watched stuff. He could still be a Spy. I can confirm that the Role Bouncer is bouncing things. They could still be a spy. Why can a Cit not confirm a Spy gift role? Cits tell the truth, and if they get targeted by Spies or Cits, they have to say so. Why does Amelia getting a gift make her a spy?
(2) Excellent point. The best point against Amelia. If Amelia is a Citizen, Sam should be flogged for saying no role actions Episode 1.
Counterpoint to (3) -- I'm a Citizen, and I led two bad cases on Rey and Yvette. Mirela made a bad case on Thor and she's probably a Citizen. For you to make (3) a valid point, you have to point out the spies who made or subtly encouraged or allowed the cases.
Jenya's Khaled clusterfuck distraction: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=burg90999&thread=1932&page=1
EXHIBIT T
TAG-TEAM!
On Jenya being the Devil's Advocate on Kirsten clearing Amelia:
Basically, I won imprisonment immunity for the challenge. I asked Amelia to give me her deadlines for using her ability and they were close but not exact to the deadlines I had to use mine for the challenge. She also noted that she got an extension for her ability for the break, and I did as well, which correlates.
My personal opinion is that Amelia is telling the truth. This isn't anything conclusive by any stretch, but I think it speaks to her actually having the imprisonment immunity...specifically that she claimed an extension for the consensus exile unprompted, which matched the fact that I was given an extension myself. She would have to be a lucky liar to get that right.
Of course she would be the first one to remind us with this:
Spies would have possibly got an extension on their roles and/or imprisonment, and thus would know extensions were being given.
Loser's Lounge Additions
EXHIBIT U
GABRIELLA'S POST ON JENYA'S ROLECLAIM
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=1360&page=1
Summary
1. Selling a weak Kirsten Exile to Gabriella
2. Post-Exile Pity Party (Yvette's Exile)
3. Unnecessary and suspicious Roleclaim after Jaya/Paris Exile
4. More Rolefishing
EXHIBIT V
CONFLICTS OF HER ROLE WITH ASTROLOGER
Jenya's role cannot coexist with Mei Yun's role due to game balance. Jenya's Role can be seen at the fourth point in Gabriela's post here: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=1360&page=1
Mei Yun = Astrologer
You have a special role. You are the Astrologer. Should you be able to read the pattern of the stars and predict the future, you will be able to save one person (like a doctor) on the following night.
EXHIBIT W
SHE'S STILL EFFING ALIVE
So why are we so sure that Jenya is a spy?
I realize that she lied about Ellis having the role, but she could be looking out for someone else, right?
One of the big active players is a Spy. There is NO WAY that spies would dare to kill Oswald over Ariel/Kirsten/Jenya.
Next, over Ariel/Kirsten/Jenya, Ariela was chosen to be Imprisoned.
Kirsten and Jenya both "pushed" for Spies to be Exiled (although I will dig up Burg behavior that proves otherwise)
Jenya had a Role
Which makes me seriously question why Jenya is still there.
EXHIBIT X
Episode 8 CLUSTERFUCK EXILE
(X is for Exile!)
Watch the Manipulative Spy Bitch in action! (Honestly, she does an amazingly good job of it, not answering for Amelia but diverting most of the night in discussing Rey. She even uses the allotted time for Rey to push the Amelia exile and flips it to stab points against Rey. Very clever indeed.)
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=1851
EXHIBIT Y
MISREPRESENTATION OF REY'S VOTE
Ariel gives a concise note here:
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=2030&page=1#13490
EXHIBIT Z
KIRSTEN IS BETTER
Rey went back to thinking Jenya is a Cit and Kirsten is a Spy but the reality of it is that Kirsten has ACTIVELY done more damage against the Spies than Jenya did. Also some hints of passive aggressive behavior here.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=1923&page=1#13472
Basically some people still are not convicend on why Jenya is a Spy. As one of the early people who are eliminated, I have limited information on how the game was played for the last few episodes. However, every time I read Jenya's posts in the Burg, I grow more and more suspicious of her. Not only she pushes suspicion on the most obvious Citizens (Kirsten/Rey) but her defense of other Spies are effective and at the same time subtle. I believe she is one of the more dangerous Spies this series has ever seen and it may take some people a second look, or a summary like this to actually give serious consideration that Jenya is a spy.
Without further ado, here is a summary of her suspicious Burg posts. I have placed categories here that correspond to the different Spy behaviors she has done.
1. SPY KNOWLEDGE Thinks in a "Spy Perspective". Too much and sometimes too accurate.
2. PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE Passive-aggressive behavior towards hunting Spies. "OMG X is a spy but I am quite not sure". Also could refer to trying to rouse suspicion against somebody hoping that somebody else would run with it.
3. TAG-TEAM! Sometimes Spies would go out in a limb to help out each other. Noted here are some examples of that.
4. REVERSE PSYCH Sometimes you put up three or four points in one post, and you just cannot be wrong in ALL of them. And when you think about the reverse, it makes PERFECT sense.
5. CONTRADICTIONS Spies love doing them. It's what they do for a living, after all.
6. CITIZEN SUSPECTS Spies have to push seemingly strong cases against Citizens. Usually they sound firm and damning but sometimes is a product of soundbyting or word-twisting. This can be seen when they make an active push for Exile.
EXHIBIT A.
SPY KNOWLEDGE ,PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE
Here she tries to make us think how "she" as a spy would think. She is half-right on this post. She did raise strong concerns against Jaya, but then says she is unsure (Passive Aggressive bahavior). Then he rouses suspicions against Rey and Tiberius without hesitation or the "unsure" aspect.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=625#2135
EXHIBIT B
SPY KNOWLEDGE, TAG-TEAM!
Robert's early case on Jenya. It was never addressed properly by Jenya. It was also shut down by Almathea as "shit case".
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=577&page=1#2587
EXHIBIT C
REVERSE PSYCH
Either Robert was killed to keep him from leading an exile on Yvette, or he was killed to make us think that's why he was killed. It's our job to decide which is the truth.
One thought.. if the spies wanted Yvette exiled, they could have just left Robert alive to lead it. So perhaps the Spies didn't want Yvette exiled.
EXHIBIT D
SPY KNOWLEDGE, CONTRADICTIONS
He mentions that the words of Robert were "fake cases". She also mentions here why Robert was Imprisoned. Read it, and it will make sense. (Yvette is now gone, Faith went before Iris.) That plan caught a spy and it threatened them.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=663#3575
But then uses his own words to clear herself
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=741#3515
EXHIBIT E
PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE
Translation: I suspect Iris, but not really!
I have questions about Levi, Paris and Faith. Nothing clear cut, but circumstantial evidence has been accumulating.
I am confused about why Iris would go along with her group's plan, not vote Callahan, and not really try to save him. I need to find her thought processes from last Thursday.
Amelia, Boris, Mirela, Oswald I don't know much about at all. Boris seems to have decent judgments, but they also match the popular consensus.
Mei Yun I don't know much about but she is pretty aggressive and a motivator, which is a good thing if she is a cit.
I have a few hints that Khaled might be a good guy but I don't know him that well and we need to talk a lot more.
EXHIBIT F
PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE, CITIZEN SUSPECTS
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=890#3683
TRANSLATION: Oswald and Mei could be Spies together, but let's go for Oswald!
But you just did, bitch!
EXHIBIT G
TOTALLY WRONG. DISTURBINGLY WRONG.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=922#4603
EXHIBIT H
SPY KNOWLEDGE
You seemed like you knew what you were doing. You should definitely post your spy guesses in your confessional and we'll see if you were right after the game.
EXHIBIT I
TAG-TEAM!, CITIZEN SUSPECTS
Donald.Trumped thread. Jenya protects Donald, then put the conversation against Kirsten and Georgia (which almost hijacked the thread). Notice how the other, weaker spies distanced themselves from Donald while Jenya, skillfully tries do divert attention from the Donald case. Thank God, Faith puts it back on track.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=971#5749
EXHIBIT J
SPY KNOWLEDGE
Very fitting for the letter "J". I think this is one of the more creepingly accurate ones.
And if they couldn't imprison other spies, they'd be a cop working against their own team. So I think it's pretty clear that they can imprison each other. A good time to do that would be when a spy's coming under suspicion and the spies want to keep them from getting in more trouble. Kind of like how Iris was starting to attract attention from voters, but now she's safely tucked away out of sight.
I guess the key is, was this an acting job by Iris?
spies6iris (7:53:42 PM): I need a drink, guys. I am so upset right now...I take this stuff too seriously, I've got tears in my eyes. Vote me out next week, I'm fucking useless as a Spy hunter.
If it's phony, then Iris is a spy being hidden by her spy friends. If it's real, then Iris is a citizen and the Spies jailed her to frame her. I definitely don't think they'd jail her to silence her or in fear of her spyhunting ability this game.
EXHIBIT K
SPY KNOWLEDGE, PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE, CITIZEN SUSPECTS
EXHIBIT L
THE DONALD VOTE
She publicly clears/give benefit of the doubt to Levi:
FIRST INSTANCE: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1387#7609
SECOND INSTANCE: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1238#6579
THIRD INSTANCE (subtle): spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1387#7564
Therefore she cannot vote for the alternative (Levi) for a Donald Exile. She also cannot throw a vote against Oswald because he is absent, that will be too self-preserving (like the Jocelyn Exile). All her other choices were Amelia and Donald. Mirela is a leading vote getter which also fits that she is also a Spy (but that's beside the point). Out of those three Spies, Donald had the strongest case against them. Jenya had to vote for him. She had no time (she claims to be gone for the weekend) to save anybody with a counter case, although she did try (see EXHIBIT I).
She also ignores William's case regarding this bussing by strawmanning it. Stating:
Also in that thread, she rouses suspicion again against Kirsten by implying that Kirsten and William were buddying.
EXHIBIT M
SPY KNOWLEDGE, TAG-TEAM!
M for Mei Yun!
(I am listing these things from a search of all her Burg posts. The letters are coincidental!)
So are you still pretty sure one of Faith, Iris is a spy?
I think Mei was imprisoned because a spy in Mei's small team demanded it. Someone got too much heat from Mei early in the game, and they wanted her gone.
Gabs was right about Yvette and spoke her mind, right about Donald and spoke her mind. Worth checking to see what else she was right about.
I think Ed was chosen because he was manipulatable by the spies in this current situation. If his imprisonment was not inevitable, I think the spies wanted someone they could control into not telling the burg their dilemma.
Right, Ariel?
Too accurate. Further, I noticed that my second team (not the first as Jenya would have implied it) had possibly FIVE SPIES in it:
IRIS
DONALD
AMELIA
JENYA
MIRELA
I talked to Oswald and Levi the most that round. Ellis quite a lot too. I openly "liked" Faith. Then despite that we Exiled Paris.
They were REALLY mad. And possibly they demanded my Imprisonment.
EXHIBIT N
SPY KNOWLEDGE
Did Gabriela get sent into the future in Imprisonment 3?
...
Maybe she tried to save someone from Imprisonment in the future. Maybe she told a spy about it, and the spy imprisoned her so she couldn't tell her story. Then maybe with future knowledge, the spies were able to imprison someone Gabs didn't choose, and feel secure about it since Gabs wasn't around any more to point the finger.
This is minor but what scares me here is that she is implying that Gabriela had a role (From what uninformed basis? Because of the flavor text Sam wrote?). Gabriela had a role, but it wasn't a SAVING role. Which makes me think that the Spies were confident, or worse, informed that they are killing people off with Roles. They could have even known that they have killed the Doctor.
EXHIBIT O
SPY KNOWLEDGE, CONTRADICTIONS
She is fairly informed of what Amelia does.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1387#7990
Further, she also strongly suspects Amelia here but never follows through with it. When Amelia gets suspected again, later, she them creates the greatest distraction from her inevitable Exile. This definitely a contradiction on her being aware and mindful on suspicious things other people have done. She skillfully swept this one under the rug.
EXHIBIT P
ROLEFISHING
It's time to talk a little about the roles people in the Burg are claiming to have. It's an especially important topic to raise right now considering that a candidate for Sunday's exile claimed a Citizen role and gave details that got her off the hook for a week. We'll need to evaluate her role alongside the rest of her behavior to determine whether or not she's telling the truth.
You may remember a few weeks back after we exiled Paris and I made a fuss about that being the 3rd spy in our original group of 11 and hoping that the rest of us were Cits. And then Sam smacked me with a rolled up newspaper and said "Wishful thinking, sister." Well, regardless, some people decided that they trusted certain people in our group a lot, and spilled role information to us. One thing led to another, and suddenly the whole Burg is bombarding Gabriela, Jason, Ellis, Pete, Tibby, Jenya and Rey with role information.
Now some of the things we know should probably be kept secret, but I think some of this information might help people make better votes. I think some of the roles we've been told could be citizen roles, and some possibly sound like spy roles. If you still have a role and haven't blabbed it to anyone, good for you, that's probably smart. If you don't have a role, be sure not to hint that you don't.. you all know the drill already.
So I think maybe people should post their suggestions about how we should handle the current situation. Should we post roles without the names of the people who hold them? Should we discuss whether particular roles sound like Cit or Spy roles so we don't have to make that decision in the last 5-10 minutes before exile? Obviously, any role that was told to someone in secret will remain secret unless the role's owner wants it made public, and only the details they want known will be made known.
Finally, one important fact I think it's appropriate to share. There's been one thing in common with all the roles we've found out about thus far.. there have been powerups given as a result of the Cits winning the Future Week challenge. Iris has claimed a role that didn't earn a powerup, and that's as good a place as any to begin discussion.
Another example of rolefishing can be seen here:
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=burg90999&thread=1756&page=1
EXHIBIT Q
JENYA'S FAKE IMPRISONMENT, CITIZEN SUSPECTS, CONTRADICTIONS
It prevents her from taking part from a possible Amelia exile but guess what happened? The Spies knew all about this and planned accordingly. Jenya fed MirelaSpy all her talking points against Thor and attempted to prevent an Amelia Exile. Jenya's false Imprisonment also allowed distrust to stem out of her fake role, which she skillfully used against Rey. If Rey is a spy, and he blabbed his role despite his Imprisonment, why would Rey blabbing her role make any difference?
Definitely a paradox.
It fits perfectly. And I'm so glad we lied about my "role" to Rey--I had a feeling that eventually it would catch him in sleazy behavior.
Let's exile him.
ps. he was the one who leaked my "role" to two people within a week of being told in strict confidentiality.
EXHIBIT R
CITIZEN SUSPECTS , TAG-TEAM!
R for Rey!!!
Clever distraction. Amidst growing suspicions of Amelia, Jenya comes back with a vengeance and creates three cases on the top Citizens: Ariel/Kirsten/Rey. This distraction helps Amelia to go under the radar, avoid any other additional questioning (making the case against her sound like a broken record), and eventually gets Rey exiled.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1742#10819
To summarize this clusterfuck distraction:
Call it "Jenya's Super Cits" week or whatever. Just do it please. I'll be dead and gone soon anyway.
She continues this crapshit with another thread: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=burg90999&thread=1742&page=2
And another: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1753#11160
And another: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg90999&action=display&thread=1782#11246
She even refers Tibby to the Rey and Khaled cases: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=burg90999&thread=1832&page=1
And about Amelia? Zero.
This is a Spy working overtime I tell you.
EXHIBIT S
TAG-TEAM!
She effectively ignores Amelia's case here:
But yes, let's point fingers at the people actually putting in the effort, because it's easy to point fingers from the comfort of the sofa.
Of course the Citizens have NOT asked questions for three episodes now. They also have NOT bothered inviting her to speak during Forum Mafia week and they have NOT talked to her on AIM obviously. Basically, Jenya is right that the Citizens are merely pointing fingers and that...
... the Amelia case has not been debated, even during Consensus Week! And of course the points against have never been mentioned, EVER.
Bonus points for two pieces of evidence against Amelia. Cookies if you have three. And a sticker on your forehead if you actually post interviews with the elusive starlet.
She is soooooooo, right.
And even when Tibby reiterates the case against Amelia, she sneakily adds a point against Khaled, while pushing his exile on another thread:
1. A citizen does not confirm a spy role
2. Role actions did not happen on day one, it was not a frame.
3. This is twice in a row now that Amelia has been saved by a counter case, NO CHANCE IN HELL she's a citizen.
Counterpoint to (1): I can confirm that Khaled watched stuff. He could still be a Spy. I can confirm that the Role Bouncer is bouncing things. They could still be a spy. Why can a Cit not confirm a Spy gift role? Cits tell the truth, and if they get targeted by Spies or Cits, they have to say so. Why does Amelia getting a gift make her a spy?
(2) Excellent point. The best point against Amelia. If Amelia is a Citizen, Sam should be flogged for saying no role actions Episode 1.
Counterpoint to (3) -- I'm a Citizen, and I led two bad cases on Rey and Yvette. Mirela made a bad case on Thor and she's probably a Citizen. For you to make (3) a valid point, you have to point out the spies who made or subtly encouraged or allowed the cases.
Jenya's Khaled clusterfuck distraction: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=burg90999&thread=1932&page=1
EXHIBIT T
TAG-TEAM!
On Jenya being the Devil's Advocate on Kirsten clearing Amelia:
Basically, I won imprisonment immunity for the challenge. I asked Amelia to give me her deadlines for using her ability and they were close but not exact to the deadlines I had to use mine for the challenge. She also noted that she got an extension for her ability for the break, and I did as well, which correlates.
My personal opinion is that Amelia is telling the truth. This isn't anything conclusive by any stretch, but I think it speaks to her actually having the imprisonment immunity...specifically that she claimed an extension for the consensus exile unprompted, which matched the fact that I was given an extension myself. She would have to be a lucky liar to get that right.
Of course she would be the first one to remind us with this:
Loser's Lounge Additions
EXHIBIT U
GABRIELLA'S POST ON JENYA'S ROLECLAIM
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=1360&page=1
Summary
1. Selling a weak Kirsten Exile to Gabriella
2. Post-Exile Pity Party (Yvette's Exile)
3. Unnecessary and suspicious Roleclaim after Jaya/Paris Exile
4. More Rolefishing
EXHIBIT V
CONFLICTS OF HER ROLE WITH ASTROLOGER
Jenya's role cannot coexist with Mei Yun's role due to game balance. Jenya's Role can be seen at the fourth point in Gabriela's post here: spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=1360&page=1
Mei Yun = Astrologer
You have a special role. You are the Astrologer. Should you be able to read the pattern of the stars and predict the future, you will be able to save one person (like a doctor) on the following night.
EXHIBIT W
SHE'S STILL EFFING ALIVE
I realize that she lied about Ellis having the role, but she could be looking out for someone else, right?
One of the big active players is a Spy. There is NO WAY that spies would dare to kill Oswald over Ariel/Kirsten/Jenya.
Next, over Ariel/Kirsten/Jenya, Ariela was chosen to be Imprisoned.
Kirsten and Jenya both "pushed" for Spies to be Exiled (although I will dig up Burg behavior that proves otherwise)
Jenya had a Role
Which makes me seriously question why Jenya is still there.
EXHIBIT X
Episode 8 CLUSTERFUCK EXILE
(X is for Exile!)
Watch the Manipulative Spy Bitch in action! (Honestly, she does an amazingly good job of it, not answering for Amelia but diverting most of the night in discussing Rey. She even uses the allotted time for Rey to push the Amelia exile and flips it to stab points against Rey. Very clever indeed.)
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=1851
EXHIBIT Y
MISREPRESENTATION OF REY'S VOTE
Ariel gives a concise note here:
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=2030&page=1#13490
EXHIBIT Z
KIRSTEN IS BETTER
Rey went back to thinking Jenya is a Cit and Kirsten is a Spy but the reality of it is that Kirsten has ACTIVELY done more damage against the Spies than Jenya did. Also some hints of passive aggressive behavior here.
spies6.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sechid909776&action=display&thread=1923&page=1#13472
