Session Start (spies6donald:Kirsten): Wed Jun 03 20:39:56 2009
20:40 spies6donald: Hi Kirsten
20:40 Kirsten: hey, Donald
20:40 *** Auto-response sent to Kirsten: I'm away right now.
20:40 Kirsten: how are you?
20:40 spies6donald: blugh
20:40 Kirsten: I actually just saw your PM
20:40 spies6donald: I still have 3 labs to finish, so I don't think I'll be on that long
20:40 Kirsten: ok, no problems
20:41 Kirsten: Tomorrow, I will probably be on after 5 pm, maybe after 6 pm, not sure.
20:41 Kirsten: At any rate, I wanted to discuss both the information in the thread on you, as well as other stuff
20:42 spies6donald: okay, I'll discuss as much as I can now. I won't be able to make it on tomorrow, probably at all
20:42 Kirsten: ok
20:42 spies6donald: I only have about half an hour free, and free internet is iffy
20:43 Kirsten: I guess the first question is when exactly did you vote Gretchen?
20:43 Kirsten: ok
20:44 Kirsten: if you voted Gretchen after you said "I'll stick with a Gretchen vote" why did you say "stick with." That makes it sound as though your vote was alerady there?
20:44 spies6donald: let me pull up the thread for a reference
20:45 spies6donald: was that statement the one made at 7:58 or 8:22ish?
20:45 Kirsten: the 7:58
20:45 Kirsten: 2 minutes before you vote swapped apaprently
20:45 spies6donald: k
20:46 spies6donald: short answer, is I'm always lazy with wordings
20:47 spies6donald: more thorough answer, I typicall don't want to vote for somebody who's not here to defend themself, so since I have Roxy and Gretchen as two top suspects, I might as well stick with a vote on the one who's here, who I can question, and who I can pursue
20:47 spies6donald: as opposed to Roxy, who wasn't here, wasn't aware of what was going on to be able to defend herself, or otherwise clear up any misunderstandings or explain herself
20:48 Kirsten: what do you think of Roxy now
20:48 Kirsten: did she answer your PM, was it satisfactory?
20:49 spies6donald: The PM was satisfactory in asmuch as I was trying to gather from her, it doesn't clear her
20:49 spies6donald: My main aim at the PM was learning about her experience with the game.
20:49 Kirsten: ok
20:49 Kirsten: how was that relevant toward whether or not you wanted to vote her?
20:51 spies6donald: The first time I talked with her, she said she's never played mafia or werewolves before. Of course somebody could be feigning ignorance or being new, to get some empathy, but a thought that's been lying in the back of my mind, is if she's never played before, how could she have been invited to this game? Sam had been inviting players from different boards on the internet to play this game. This implies that Roxy had lied, and did have experience with mafia or werewolves
20:51 spies6donald: But one thing she also mentioned, that I didn't understand back then, was that she said she's only played ORGs, I have no idea what that is
20:51 spies6donald: So I also had her clarify that, to me.
20:52 spies6donald: I don't recall the specific order of events, I think I talked with Tibs first, but I learned between the two of them that Roxy has never played mafia or werewolves before, but she has played Survivor. A very different kind of game, but some similar aspects, you vote somebody out.
20:52 Kirsten: right
20:52 Kirsten: I'm familiar with the TV show, if nothing else
20:53 spies6donald: That's more or less what I"m familiar with
20:53 spies6donald: Tibs explained how her experience fits with her playstyle, which makes most of the scumtells against her moot.
20:53 spies6donald: For instance, Roxy votes with the group. We see that as bandwaggoning, she's going for an easy lynch as long as it's not her or her buddies
20:53 Kirsten: right
20:54 spies6donald: In survivor (I've still yet to read a game), there is no mafia
20:54 Kirsten: the episode 1 chat Levi "pinned" to her
20:54 spies6donald: It's a Free For All
20:54 spies6donald: If there's a group mentality to vote somebody out, you hop on, because it gets you one step closer to victory
20:55 Kirsten: yeah, no reason to alienate yourself from the pack
20:56 spies6donald: I haven't applied this too much to Roxy and her posts/chats this game, yet but knowing this about her experience, (this all probably came about within 24 hours of deadline), made me decide I shouldn't vote to exile her. My vote at that time was already on Gretchen, but I heard from Roxy, which was one of my reasons for keeping a vote on Gretchen
20:56 spies6donald: and what I heard from Roxy, told me I would not be able to analyze her in enough time to justifiably vote her. There was too much to look into.
20:56 Kirsten: when did you hear from Roxy?
20:57 spies6donald: 皜he actually responded pretty quickly, May 26 11:56 am. I don't remember when I read it
20:57 spies6donald: but I think that was Monday, correct?
20:58 Kirsten: not sure
20:58 Kirsten: Tuesday
20:59 spies6donald: okay
20:59 spies6donald: hmm
21:00 spies6donald: It's a haphazard guess, but I probably read it between 5-6pm
21:00 spies6donald: that afternoon
21:02 Kirsten: ok
21:02 Kirsten: you were originally planning on voting Gretchen last episode, correc?T
21:03 spies6donald: yes
21:05 spies6donald: I logged in about 20 minutes before deadline, saw more people suddnly start posting on the thread you started about me
21:05 spies6donald: Saw a few new players who said they'd vote me, which scared me and made me start feeling frantic, because it looked like such a sudden shift, cutting so close to deadline
21:07 spies6donald: I was only mildly suspicious of Yvette, didn't want to exile her at the last exile, and wanted to question her more, but, I regret it, but I jumped on her bandwagon in the hopes of getting lucky, and also hoping to save myself. Nobody had been talking about Gretchen, so I didn't think anybody else had been considering voting her.
21:08 Kirsten: People will likely attack you over that
21:08 Kirsten: What do you think about Gretchen being the competing wagon to jaya?
21:08 Kirsten: affect your opinion, or no?
21:09 spies6donald: I've thought about that, but haven't made heads or tails of it yet.
21:09 spies6donald: I've seen it happen where we've been on two mafia bandwagons before, so it does happen
21:09 spies6donald: but I think it mostly depends on the players on each side, who's voting which player
21:10 Kirsten: so what do you think about William, Ed, and myself
21:11 spies6donald: You, I think you've been overly nitpicky at what I said, but I play the same way and have caught scum on certain details such as that before. I think you're doing a good job hunting for scum, you're an independent thinker, not a follower, I'm getting a good citizen feel from you.
21:11 spies6donald: William, he's on my list of players I need to look at again to remind myself about
21:12 spies6donald: I have some thoughts about Will and Oswald mixed up, but I recall at least one of them frequently saying they're suspicious of me, and sometimes pulling out a very generic reason, without any evidence, and I want to pursue that and ask them about that
21:12 Kirsten: not the first time I've been accused as nitpicky. And yes, I've caught scum via nitpicking plenty of times.
21:12 spies6donald: I want to find if they actually have a reason for thinking that, or if they're just trying to push suspicion on to me
21:13 Kirsten: William has voted you twice. Probably him.
21:13 spies6donald: After spies ends, we need to talk about some of our scumcatches
21:13 spies6donald: okay, could be. I just remember Oswald told me first exile why he was suspicious of me, and when I pointed out his biggest reason was plain out wrong, he didn't sound as suspicious anymore, but still voted me
21:14 Kirsten: The first time he voted you for lurking. The 2nd time he voted you after I pointed out the "lie" of you saying you voted Gretchen before our chat, yet you referencing changing your vote within the chat.
21:14 spies6donald: but I need to look at them both some more, and make them distinct from each other
21:14 spies6donald: I'll take note of that.
21:15 spies6donald: and Ed.
21:15 Kirsten: so you cleared up your suspicion with Oswald and he voted you anyway?
21:15 Kirsten: I want to ask him about that myself :-)
21:15 spies6donald: yeah
21:16 spies6donald: I haven't had a chance to speak with him since
21:16 spies6donald: but I've been wanting to ask him about it
21:17 spies6donald: For Ed, I'm leaning a bit towards cit, but don't have a strong read of him
21:17 spies6donald: I talked with him one-on-one before our team chat for Exile 2, and got a good citizen vibe there
21:17 spies6donald: but during the team chat, it was dropping
21:17 spies6donald: I need to talk with him some more one-on-one皜
21:17 spies6donald: Do you know what the deal is with his infatuation of Gretchen?
21:18 Kirsten: no
21:18 Kirsten: I'm not sure what the deal is there
21:20 spies6donald: What is your opinion of Ed?
21:20 spies6donald: and also, Gabriela and I blanked out on the other name...
21:21 Kirsten: the other name?
21:21 spies6donald: I was about to ask you about a third person
21:21 Kirsten: Ed, I feel is probably a citizen
21:21 Kirsten: ah
21:21 Kirsten: Gabriela, I think is almost definitely a citizen
21:21 spies6donald: oh! Roxy
21:21 Kirsten: and your other name is clearly a spy
21:21 spies6donald: LOL
21:21 spies6donald: okay, I'll be voting Roxy and quote you on that ;P
21:21 Kirsten: Roxy, I think is a citizen. Jaya was supportive of the "information lynch"
21:22 Kirsten: Plus, I think Levi is a spy, and Levi both voted for her, and attacked her over evidence I thought was weak
21:22 Kirsten: that probably shouldn't weigh in until i see Levi's alignment, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't
21:23 Kirsten: Gabriela, voted Almathea. Opposed the Yvette wagon with legitimate evidence. Attacked you with what I felt was legitimate evidence.
21:23 Kirsten: also, she did well in the challenges
21:23 Kirsten: even though that's kind of minor
21:24 Kirsten: Ed, my feeling is based from chatting with him, and his interactions in the group chat (directly antagonized Yvette/Ariel, two influential players, not the pro spy play), and Jaya voted for him and at that point, he looked as though he might get votes.
21:29 spies6donald: Who are your top 3 or 4 suspects right now?
21:29 Kirsten: Levi, Boris, Faith, and maybe you
21:29 Kirsten: I need to consider you more. I don't consider the "slips" I nailed you on to be conclusive anymore
21:31 Kirsten: outside of that, though, you're kind of a question mark to me. I've gotten cit reads from you (see Episode 2), but I can shake a suspicious feeling from that chat we had.
21:32 spies6donald: I'm interested in hearing why you suspect Boris. From episode 1, he seemed like a good player, I was leaning slightly towards cit, but I haven't really seen him since
21:32 Kirsten: voted the bandwagon 3 times.
21:32 Kirsten: has done no spyhunting
21:32 Kirsten: Suspected Yvette based on misinformation. I set him straight. He said he would consider it. He still voted her.
21:33 Kirsten: anyway, who are your top 3-4?
21:34 spies6donald: Gretchen, Levi, Amelia, Oswald/Will, once I get those two sorted out on who's who
21:35 Kirsten: Amelia, why/
21:36 spies6donald: Amelia is either a really bad player, or she is creating really bad reasons to vote people. She seems to lurk, and when she replys to something somebody says, it's often taking it out of context, quite significantly
21:37 Kirsten: what about that makes you think she's a spy?
21:39 spies6donald: As a lurker, you can stay under the radar and avoid suspicion
21:39 spies6donald: and how horribly she's misinterpreted some posts, makes me think she may be doing it on purpose
21:40 spies6donald: But I haven't pursued her much, so I have to do that. I think the only time we had a one-on-one is just minutes before she had to leave
21:40 Kirsten: as for Levi, why do you suspect him?
21:42 spies6donald: He's been very contradictory. His news about a Mei alliance is interesting, but I don't think there's anything in that in itself. His stance on voting her or thinking she was a cit on exile one is really shaky. His excuse for a lot of his contradictions has been "I didn't mean that" or "I forgot"
21:43 spies6donald: and those things happen. But it's pretty hard to forget that you made a firm stance against wanting to lynch inactives, and to then say you're considering who to vote from inactives
21:44 spies6donald: I've been reading, I think from Levi, that some things in the case against him are misrepresented. i.e. two instances a few days, or more apart are being examined right next to each other.
21:44 spies6donald: and the entire transition between the two needs to be observed, not just the two endpo皜nts
21:45 Kirsten: that's a misconception
21:45 spies6donald: Did you read the chat posted between Georgia and Roxy?
21:45 Kirsten: I haven't yhet
21:45 Kirsten: Thor suggested that misconception. Levi hopped aboard.
21:45 Kirsten: It's possible that other people have actually argued it (I want to look into it more), but nothing I've accused Levi of falls under that category
21:46 Kirsten: I accused him of being contradictory on Mei Yun
21:46 Kirsten: however, his contradictory stance happened in the span of 1 minute in a single conversation
21:46 Kirsten: so...
21:46 spies6donald: yup, I'm very familiar with that piece of evidence
21:46 spies6donald: I've seen it multiple times now
21:52 spies6donald: What's your opinion of the new voting system?
21:54 Kirsten: I dislike the fact that not all votes are revealed
Session Close (Kirsten): Wed Jun 03 22:12:34 2009