Kirsten and Jason are the Final Spies

[Levi]

As I've already said, either there was a team of four Spies and a traitor that unnecessarily Exiled Almathea, or Kirsten is a Spy. I have to suspend a boatload of disbelief to believe that two Spies were on Team Clusterfuck, so Kirsten is a Spy.

The reason that I believe she is Spies with Jason is that she has consistently had Jason on the edge of her suspect list, but has never done anything about it. She also tries to write off the Kirsten/Jason Spy pair based on her behavior with the role investigation, that she unneccessarily cast suspicion onto Jason.

Like I said, from my point of view, Kirsten is a Spy, and we've seen how she casts suspicion onto her Spy partners Donald and Iris.

Here's some chat snippets from Kirsten that I think you'll find interesting:

July 5:

spies6levi (2:59:19 PM): There are three Spies remaining in the game
spies6Kirsten (2:59:22 PM): yep
spies6levi (2:59:28 PM): Give me their names, to the best of your ability
spies6levi (2:59:36 PM): Reasoning would be appreciated
spies6Kirsten (3:00:19 PM): That's a tough question
spies6Kirsten (3:00:30 PM): I will say that I "thought" I knew the last 3 were Khaled, Gretchen, Rey
spies6Kirsten (3:00:38 PM): but that theory has been proven false
spies6Kirsten (3:01:09 PM): Gretchen/Khaled/Boris
spies6levi (3:01:17 PM): Alright
spies6levi (3:01:22 PM): Why Gretchen?
spies6Kirsten (3:01:43 PM): Khaled can be substitued for Ariel...Boris for Jason, perhaps

No where in the chat does she give her reasoning for why Boris can be substituted for Jason.

July 12:

spies6Kirsten (4:35:42 PM): someone with a role is lying
spies6Kirsten (4:35:45 PM): Khaled got a "yes"
spies6levi (4:35:51 PM): Khaled is lying
spies6Kirsten (4:35:54 PM): not sure
spies6Kirsten (4:35:56 PM): I think it might be Jason


spies6levi (4:42:24 PM): If he flips Spy, problem solved
spies6levi (4:43:04 PM): If he doesn't, Jason is the next target
spies6Kirsten (4:43:21 PM): I'm tempted to just go for Jason now
spies6Kirsten (4:43:28 PM): I don't see what motivation khaled would have to lie in this scenario
spies6Kirsten (4:43:34 PM): although I could see them both as spies

July 15:

spies6levi (9:28:38 PM): But why Boris out of everyone lse?
spies6Kirsten (9:28:54 PM): he simply has the absolute least connections to dead spies
spies6Kirsten (9:29:10 PM): he's also done no spy hunting
spies6Kirsten (9:29:40 PM): he's wagoned. He's given his opinions on things. But when has he actually pushed a case on someone as a spy?
spies6Kirsten (9:30:21 PM): The other spy...is probably Gretchen, even though I'm hesitant regarding her connections with Donald early game
spies6Kirsten (9:30:41 PM): could possibly be Pete, or maybe Jenya/Jason

spies6levi (9:59:57 PM): If boris is a Spy
spies6levi (10:00:02 PM): Why did he vote Amelia
spies6levi (10:00:03 PM): Not once
spies6levi (10:00:05 PM): Not twice
spies6levi (10:00:07 PM): But three times
spies6Kirsten (10:00:16 PM): why not?
spies6Kirsten (10:00:19 PM): she was dead in the water
spies6Kirsten (10:00:36 PM): Boris was one of the few players who didn't hear about Thor suspicions from me
spies6Kirsten (10:00:54 PM): and maybe Jason
spies6Kirsten (10:00:59 PM): and Amelia

(NOTE: Here she is claiming that those people didn't jump on Thor because they didn't know about the case on him.)

July 22:

spies6levi (3:08:39 PM): Jason (I'm leaning Spy on him)
spies6levi (3:08:48 PM): And you (thinking you could be Jason's partner)
spies6Kirsten (3:09:03 PM): did you see my post yesterday about spy pairs?
spies6levi (3:09:09 PM): No
spies6levi (3:09:11 PM): Where's it at?
spies6Kirsten (3:09:39 PM): in the spy pair threa
spies6Kirsten (3:09:41 PM): thread
spies6levi (3:09:54 PM): Alright
spies6levi (3:09:57 PM): ill check it out

Immediately when I mention it, she points me to that weak explanation as to why they are not Spies together.

July 23:

spies6Kirsten (3:38:01 PM): Jason is a punk
spies6Kirsten (3:38:13 PM): He cuts himself to try to prevent me from having to cut him
spies6Kirsten (3:38:35 PM): He lurks a lot in chat. He's one of the few people left in the game that doesn't "feel" citizen when we chat.
spies6Kirsten (3:39:09 PM): He was able to claim the upgrade to his role successfully
spies6Kirsten (3:39:14 PM): or it succesfully matched those of other citizens
spies6Kirsten (3:39:18 PM): such as Khaled
spies6Kirsten (3:39:30 PM): Won the role investigation and used it in the way a townie would
spies6Kirsten (3:39:55 PM): However, Amelia voted him in a shady manner, giving me some skepticisim there
spies6Kirsten (3:40:02 PM): Amelia cuold have also been lying
spies6Kirsten (3:40:03 PM): never know
spies6levi (3:40:11 PM): Jenya
spies6Kirsten (3:40:15 PM): Had Rey slightly above
spies6Kirsten (3:40:18 PM): I'm not done with Jason!
spies6levi (3:40:20 PM): Oh
spies6levi (3:40:20 PM): Sorry
spies6levi (3:40:24 PM): Continue
spies6Kirsten (3:40:26 PM): how dare you
spies6Kirsten (3:40:28 PM): cut me off
spies6Kirsten (3:40:29 PM): I"LL CUT YOU
spies6levi (3:40:33 PM): *gulp*
spies6Kirsten (3:40:42 PM): you'd better be scared *threatens*
spies6Kirsten (3:40:58 PM): listed Rey as slightly more suspicious than Amelia episdoe 8, could be a nice way to fence-sit as a spy
spies6Kirsten (3:41:07 PM): Voted the Thorastic Thor in episode 7




(Sam, sorry if these violate the rules, but I feel compelled to post them.)

Quick question: Has anyone ever seen Kirsten seriously go after Jason as a suspect? Anyone?

I didn't think so. She's been keeping him on the horizon of her radar for possible bussage and appearance's sake, while working with him in the Spy HQ to get us Citizen's Imprisoned.


From my point of view, the two Spies are somewhere within Pete/Jason/Kirsten. Jenya is not a Spy because she actively tried to change my vote. It would not make sense for a Spy who had already posted suspicion of me in the Burg to try and change my vote . . . JenyaSpy would have gotten me misexiled instead.

If Pete/Jason are the Spies, then there were 4 Spies and 1 Traitor on the team that Exiled Almathea, which doesn't make logical sense.

By default, that makes Kirsten a Spy, and there is plenty of evidence to support that. I believe that these chat snippets make Jason the logical choice for Spy partners with Kirsten.

We all need to Vote: Kirsten tonight.

[Kirsten]

So I'm a spy with Jason because I've been suspicious of him when nobody else has been?

I guess that does make a lot of sense. Being suspicious of players suggests the likelihood that you are on the same team. Kind of like how me getting Donald + Iris exiled really just suggests that I'm on their spy team.

I will apologize right now for my actions. When I signed up for this game and learned I was a citizen, I was under the impression my goal in the game was to find spies. If I had known that getting spies exiled was, in fact, suspicious play I would have gone after Yvette, Mirela, Gretchen, Georgia, Faith, etc. Those are a list of some of the citizens I stopped or made an attempt to stop an exile on at some point during the game. I now understand that this was an error, and I apologize for it.

Now I know the truth. A real citizen would have listed Jason as a cleared citizen, while a spy would have attacked him if they are spy buddies together. I will keep that in mind next time I play the game.

I really hope I end up being a spy next time we play. I have a great idea. If attacking a spy makes people think you're a spy, and if attacking citizens is how people view you as a citizen, then I've concocted a pretty lethal scheme to use as a spy. As a spy, I will attack citizens, and not attack any of my spy buddies. People will think that I'm not a spy, because I'm not attacking any spies, so therefore I will be a citizen, proof by contradiction style.

That appears to be the strategy Levi used in this game. I'm thinking back to how he had this big "gut read" that Donald was a spy, but attacked me over Donald episode 1 instead. I'm thinking of how he and Iris protected each other. I'm thinking of how he completely ignored the case on Donald, despite having a gut read that Donald was a spy. You would think if he had a gut read that Donald was a spy, he would have posted at least a single time in the Donald thread, or even acknowledged the existence of it, but I was mistaken.

I now know that Levi's actions make him a likely citizen, because he defended spies and attacked citizens. If he was a spy, he would have already known who the spies were, so it would have been easier for him to attack the spies. I really hope you can all forgive me for overlooking this. I can barely forgive myself.

I'm going to make one last plea. One last attempt to look like a citizen. I'm going to vote for Levi, the guy who looks so much like a citizen based on how he has attacked only citizens this entire game. I'm hoping that me voting for Levi, who looks like a clear citizen, will also make me look like a clear citizen, while the spies vote for each other. Those last two spies know who each other are, so they will probably attack each other.

I have failed you all

-Kirsten

P.S: This post wasn't sarcasm...at all

[Jason]

Levi, Kirsten expressed a lot of suspicions on YOU early in the game but 'did nothing about it' in terms of votes. Doesn't that, by your own logic, make her a Spy with you??

Jenya has even left me on her Spy radar for half of this game, but never voted for me. Doesn't that make her Spies with me?

Plus...:

spies6Kirsten (9:30:41 PM): could possibly be Pete, or maybe Jenya/Jason

Okay, so Kirsten suspected Pete but did nothing about him, too. AND JENYA! So by your logic... ALL of us are Spies together??


The truth is, it's possible to suspect someone... But actually have legitimate BIGGER suspects who you vote over them. Right now I suspect two people as the final Spies because, well, there are two Spies left... Voting one doesn't make me Spy partners with the other because I suspect them but don't vote for them, it just means I suspect someone else more.

[Levi]

No Jason . . . you are not following what I am saying.

From my point of view, there are four possible Spies, with two of them being actual Spies: Jenya, Pete, Jason, Kirsten. I highly, highly doubt that the remaining two Spies are from team Clusterfuck, as that team Exiled Almathea. If there really were that many Spies on that team, I'm fairly confident they could have done a better job on saving their Spy partner and Exiling someone else.

Therefore, I believe that Kirsten is a Spy. I do not believe that Jenya is a Spy based on her behavior in trying to persuade my vote. If she was a Spy, she would have gone for my misexile based on the stance she took in her final thoughts thread. That leaves Pete and Jason as the final two candidates . . . and Kirsten/Jason makes more sense to me than Kirsten/Pete.

For the Kirsten/Levi example, you are badly mistaken. Kirsten posted a thread about me, asked me questions, opened everything up to discussion. She has never done anything like that with you. She's kept you on your suspect list, but completely ignored you in the Burg. She has failed to follow up on her suspicions like she did with myself, Donald, Iris, Thor, Amelia, and Boris. Kirsten has to be a Spy from my point of view, and this greatly incriminates you with her. I am not talking about votes here . . . I am talking about failing to follow through with your suspects . . . . something completely out of character for her.

My vote is on Kirsten right now, and will not change.

[Jason]

Well, lets look at the people you listed:

myself, Donald, Iris, Thor, Amelia, and Boris

Unknown, Spy, Spy, Cit, Spy, Cit.

Three spies, and two Cits... and one of those two Cits, Thor, was basically exiled in secret. Kirsten didn't make near the public case on Thor that she did on anyone else. She did help get him exiled but it was Mirela, not Kirsten, that started the Thor Exiling, otherwise it probably wouldn't have happened.

Jul 6, 2009 19:19:18 GMT -5 Kirsten said:

Gretchen and Boris

Is this Kirsten's public followup on Boris?? If there's a better post please point me to it... I skimmed through the threads from that round, I don't have the patience for scouring the Burg right now


It seems to me her very public case on you falls MUCH more in line to her cases on Donald and Iris... Why shouldn't I believe you're a Spy if I use your logic?