Notes to self: Robert is sneaky, Yvette is terrible.
Yvette v. Robert:
spies6Robert (10:35:36 AM): Hi
spies6callahan (10:35:47 AM): I was just replying to your post
spies6Robert (10:35:58 AM): Okay i'll wait for the reply then talk to you
spies6callahan (10:38:43 AM): posted my friend.
spies6Robert (10:39:33 AM): you genuinely believe there is no need to hide that you are making a case until you have finished putting it together?
spies6callahan (10:39:46 AM): yeah
spies6Robert (10:40:08 AM): remember this isnt message board mafia where everyone would know I had a case in the works on them...
spies6callahan (10:40:14 AM): what could give you more info than telling the subject of your case, that there exists a case?
spies6Robert (10:40:26 AM): simple.
spies6Robert (10:40:33 AM): watching them while they dont know you are watchign
spies6callahan (10:40:37 AM): it provokes reactions, which would give your case substance, and it lacked substance
spies6Robert (10:40:49 AM): until the moment she had wind there was a case brewing on her she'd have been in a VERY secure positon
spies6Robert (10:40:56 AM): and thus less likely to be careful with her approach
spies6Robert (10:41:36 AM): lacks substance? We have someone posting "How do you feel about leaders?" then taking leadership... Thats without even mentioning the way she twisted what I said to maek that post viable...
spies6callahan (10:41:48 AM): I'm more for provoking panic, thus ruining 'careful'
spies6callahan (10:42:18 AM): and that would be the course I would've taken had I felt the need to case Yvette
spies6Robert (10:42:32 AM): you feel yvette is the type to panic?
spies6callahan (10:42:36 AM): could be
spies6Robert (10:42:41 AM): See, I don't see ehr as a panicker
spies6callahan (10:42:41 AM): how do you know? you haven't tried
spies6Robert (10:42:49 AM): hense preferring to hide it until I was ready
spies6Robert (10:43:03 AM): impressions from talking to her.
spies6callahan (10:43:17 AM): impressions could be false
spies6callahan (10:43:25 AM): we've all seen big-foot's tracks
spies6Robert (10:43:40 AM): balance of probabilities my friend
spies6Robert (10:43:58 AM): If i get the impression that shes unlikely to panic, i'm better watchign while she's feeling pressureless than trying to evoke panic
spies6Robert (10:44:08 AM): Plus the panic tet would have come as soon as i posted it anyway
spies6Robert (10:44:16 AM): Just let me have more of observation 1 first
spies6Robert (10:44:39 AM): Not to mention my case now looks inherently flawed and like it's an "OMGUS!" on her, until others pipe up to admit i was talking to them about it
spies6callahan (10:44:50 AM): I don't want you to think i'm friends with yvette
spies6callahan (10:44:57 AM): i'm not friends with you either
spies6callahan (10:45:16 AM): I'm just calling it like I see it to both of you
spies6callahan (10:45:22 AM): and both cases look terrible
spies6callahan (10:45:36 AM): I hope they don't go any farther than they have
spies6Robert (10:46:31 AM): that said, you have been rather contradictory.
spies6callahan (10:46:38 AM): how so?
spies6Robert (10:46:48 AM): you feel it wrong that i kept my case a secret?
spies6Robert (10:46:57 AM): Yet told yvette she should have kept hers a secret longer
spies6Robert (10:47:14 AM): I can't get that to make sense.
spies6callahan (10:47:57 AM): well, being yvette, she described to me how she was careful not to let you know things, and then played a pair of deuces.
spies6callahan (10:48:03 AM): it was like, what are you doing?
spies6callahan (10:48:30 AM): now if she had some aces, some real dirt on you, then yeah, play it
spies6callahan (10:48:45 AM): but when she came out with nothing, it made me wonder why she even tried
spies6Robert (10:48:49 AM): so you feel her case was uncharacteristicly weak, and thus should have waited, while mine is equally weak but shouldn't have been hidden?
spies6callahan (10:49:08 AM): well, yours wasn't really a case either, no offense
spies6callahan (10:49:17 AM): its really too early for big winners
spies6Robert (10:49:41 AM): oh i dont disagree. Like I said, mine is a good day 1 case to me, but would be laughed out on day 5
spies6Robert (10:50:07 AM): but that is a distraction from the point. You felt we had two weak cases, correct?
spies6callahan (10:50:16 AM): to be honest your case is the stronger of the two, but the difference is the same as getting shot 2 seconds later on your U-boat
spies6Robert (10:50:17 AM): But that she was wrong to reveal, while I was wrong not to reveal earlier
spies6callahan (10:50:37 AM): no no, you're missing the point
spies6Robert (10:50:43 AM): yes i am
spies6callahan (10:51:05 AM): i found it odd that she kept a weak case a secret at all
spies6callahan (10:51:42 AM): and i asked her, if the secrecy was all you needed, why take it away so early?
spies6callahan (10:51:49 AM): and she said she had all she needed
spies6callahan (10:51:57 AM): so i chuckled and moved on
spies6Robert (10:52:12 AM): so she's misrepresenting you in that thread?
spies6callahan (10:52:21 AM): let me read over it again
spies6Robert (10:52:25 AM): please do.
spies6callahan (10:52:53 AM): my post "i like how your case was a secret" was directed at you
spies6callahan (10:52:57 AM): not yvette
spies6Robert (10:53:07 AM): yes
spies6callahan (10:53:12 AM): she made that mistake, and thought i was talking about her
spies6Robert (10:53:14 AM): there lies the contradiction
spies6callahan (10:53:30 AM): I don't see your contradiction
spies6Robert (10:53:39 AM): you called me out on keeping my case a secret, yes?
spies6callahan (10:53:52 AM): go on
spies6Robert (10:53:59 AM): Am i right so far
spies6Robert (10:54:02 AM): so we dont get lost
spies6callahan (10:54:04 AM): lol
spies6Robert (10:54:22 AM): we seem to be on a different page, so i'd rather do it step by step getting confirmation
spies6Robert (10:54:35 AM): You cvalled me out, and felt it was wrong for me to keep the case a secret, correct?
spies6callahan (10:54:49 AM): not wrong, just could be done better
spies6callahan (10:54:55 AM): not effective.
spies6callahan (10:54:58 AM): go ahead.
spies6Robert (10:54:59 AM): okay.
spies6Robert (10:55:19 AM): Meanwhile, according to yvette (and not argued by you), you told her she should have kept her case a secret for longer, correct?
spies6callahan (10:56:15 AM): what I did, she explained her strategy, and as i said it was weak, and i humored her logic and asked why she didn't wait for longer.
spies6callahan (10:56:24 AM): I never encouraged the wait.
spies6callahan (10:56:37 AM): i merely wanted to know what made her bring it out now
spies6Robert (10:56:53 AM): Then why so insistant that post was directed at me and not her?
spies6Robert (10:57:02 AM): Surely you should feel we were both wrong to keep cases secret?
spies6Robert (10:57:05 AM): or neither was wrong.
spies6callahan (10:57:06 AM): she misunderstood, i corrected her
spies6Robert (10:57:37 AM): it feels like you are protecting her, while engaging in minor distancing
spies6callahan (10:57:41 AM): well the topic never came up with yvette and i, but no I don't think secrecy was necessary with her either
spies6callahan (10:57:48 AM): but what was done was done
spies6Robert (10:58:06 AM): Then why not question her secrecy with the case, why only question mine?
spies6callahan (10:58:26 AM): it never really came up, there was more to talk about than execution
spies6Robert (10:58:51 AM): then when bringing it up against me, it would have made sense tio diurect it at us both
spies6Robert (10:59:02 AM): I wont lie. If she flips guilty, you suddenly look bad in my eyes
spies6callahan (10:59:16 AM): for her, it seemed to have actual strategic value to her, and then yours seemed to have none. Personally i saw no value in either.
spies6callahan (10:59:34 AM): and I couldn't care less how bad i look in your eyes
spies6Robert (10:59:38 AM): yet you shrugged off strategic value when i brought it up regarding my own?
spies6callahan (10:59:42 AM): yes
spies6callahan (10:59:50 AM): cause it was anything but
spies6Robert (11:00:01 AM): while hers was?
spies6callahan (11:00:07 AM): same
spies6callahan (11:00:13 AM): but with her i was curious
spies6callahan (11:00:19 AM): yours i already knew
spies6Robert (11:00:30 AM): if it wasnt for the fact I pretty much know her case was a knee jerk reaction to the fact my case on her was about to be psoted, i'd think her case and my case are in many ways similar
spies6callahan (11:00:42 AM): wait
spies6Robert (11:00:47 AM): if you take both at face value, we both sat on the cases for a while, for the same reasons
spies6callahan (11:00:48 AM): i have a question
spies6callahan (11:01:04 AM): do you know for certain she knew a case was pending when she posted about you?
spies6callahan (11:01:09 AM): or is it an educated guess?
spies6Robert (11:02:01 AM): it's a very educated guess. too much of a coincidence
spies6callahan (11:02:06 AM): i see
spies6Robert (11:02:11 AM): it was posted a couple of hours after i spoke to a few peo[ple about her
spies6Robert (11:02:22 AM): and told them i'd have a case put up in the next 18 hours or so
spies6callahan (11:02:32 AM): so it is POSSIBLE but UNLIKELY that she posted about you out of legitimate suspicions?
spies6Robert (11:03:27 AM): If so, then she's my identical twin, to have come up with a secret case against me, and choosing to post it at that time.
spies6Robert (11:03:39 AM): its also worth noting she had kept her case entirely to herself.
spies6Robert (11:03:45 AM): or at least hasnt said otherwise.
spies6Robert (11:04:00 AM): yet she had the perfect opportunity to, to rebut my claim that she was posting as a knee jerk
spies6callahan (11:04:32 AM): well, to your credit, i can see how your train of logic comes through. Especially how she's like "i lied about robert being citizen blah blah" because its a complete 180
spies6callahan (11:05:05 AM): unfortunately, that doesn't tell me she's a spy, just a terrible and defensive player
spies6Robert (11:05:10 AM): Yeah. I mean, when i was calling her a citizen, i genuinely believed it
spies6callahan (11:05:47 AM): so what it comes down to is at the moment i believe that both of you are citizens
spies6Robert (11:05:58 AM): plus i at least always, quite publicly, advocated that theres a cahnce she was a spy so it wasnt a 180
spies6Robert (11:06:03 AM): in fact more a slow sway that way
spies6Robert (11:06:20 AM): i wont deny its possible, but its unliekly
spies6callahan (11:06:25 AM): how quick you are to talk about yourself...
spies6callahan (11:06:26 AM): haha
spies6Robert (11:07:38 AM): if we are both innocents, the best thing that could happen is for both of our lynches to fail, then one of us being imprisoned. Otherwise we'll end up wasting two lynches, as the second one of us flips innocent, the other looks even more guilty.
That said, its a risk im willing to take, as i am convinced she is a spy
spies6callahan (11:08:12 AM): eye of the beholder
spies6callahan (11:08:24 AM): I doubt it
spies6callahan (11:08:36 AM): these things always happen close to the first exile
spies6callahan (11:08:47 AM): some big drama is drummed up, a mis-exile takes place
spies6callahan (11:08:54 AM): no one is at immediate fault
spies6callahan (11:09:16 AM): we're all gaping at each other; we can't believe it
spies6Robert (11:09:28 AM): this is going to sound VERY egoistical...
spies6callahan (11:09:33 AM): I'd rather not go through that again
spies6Robert (11:09:56 AM): but i believe both Yvette and I are skilled players. These things aren't usually clashes of skilled players. Said clashes usually do inviolve a guilty party.
spies6callahan (11:09:58 AM): you are always egotistical it seems
spies6callahan (11:10:14 AM): not on day 1
spies6callahan (11:10:18 AM): never on day 1
spies6Robert (11:10:35 AM): in my experience it's middle of the pack players that usually clash on day 1 and end up both innocent
spies6callahan (11:10:37 AM): if a day 1 lynch is accurate, its almost always because of a slip on someones part
spies6Robert (11:10:46 AM): if two top end players clash, its usually indicative of something at least
spies6callahan (11:11:02 AM): well, I think yvette is a terrible player
spies6callahan (11:11:09 AM): so where is that on your table
spies6Robert (11:11:21 AM): that's thrown me off the table.
spies6Robert (11:11:42 AM): if shes a terrible player, I may well be wrong. Everything i've looked at is with the assumption she's a "star" player
spies6callahan (11:12:44 AM): well, i don't know about your table
spies6callahan (11:12:47 AM): but on mine
spies6callahan (11:12:58 AM): when a skilled player goes against the less talented
spies6callahan (11:13:02 AM): the skilled player wins
spies6callahan (11:13:28 AM): however, the less talented goes whether they're a spy or citizen
spies6callahan (11:13:52 AM): that being said, if you are as skilled as you say, and she's innocent, you're going to look bad in everyones eyes
spies6callahan (11:13:54 AM): not just mine
spies6Robert (11:16:53 AM): oh, if we are both innocent, the "winner" is going to look bad, i dont deny that
spies6Robert (11:17:07 AM): but then if i worried about that, i'd never start a train, never create a case
spies6callahan (11:17:47 AM): if you get someone innocent exiled, we're going to be on the outs for a very long time
spies6callahan (11:18:16 AM): though I guess there isn't much to lose since you started on the wrong foot and kept walking anyway.
spies6callahan (11:19:04 AM): that being said, I hope you are careful