Post by Judge Sam on May 5, 2009 20:41:57 GMT -5
Just went through the choose your own role stuff. And yes I know there is still 4 hours left. =P I'll check back again and see if someone posts something. But for now the winner is.... the Taskmaster!
I really like the concept of stealing someone's role from them. That's nasty. That's why I like it. Will be interesting to see who that happens to. I'm throwing on some restrictions to make it more fun.
Anyhoo I'll talk about that first I want to talk about the CYR (choose your role) idea process. I've had that idea for awhile, wanted to do it for Spies 5 but I think I forgot. Anyway it's a good idea because it entices applicants, gives people a tiny thing to do pre-game, gets interest, etc. And it's not too radical of an idea really.
It's also good for me for so many reasons which is why I wanted to do it haha. I'm running out of role ideas! Looking through this game I just kept coming up with idea after idea that I kept striking down. I ended up re-using a lot from Spies 5 and changing up some. Those were pretty good actually. So for one this replenishes the role well for me. And it did give me a lot of good ideas.
It also told me what some people like in roles and what they would like to have themselves. That's interesting cause roles are supposed to be fun so that tells me things.
So I want to talk about why I keep striking down so many role ideas, both my own and other people's. Time after time there are just so many properties to roles that I knock out for whatever reason. Actually I was going to list a bunch of them and a bunch of things I wouldn't do but that sure would reveal a bunch of future fake role claims wouldn't it haha?
That would be dumb of me. Sucks though cause I'd like to talk my mafia setup theory.
So anyway why is it I strike down so many role ideas? I see tons of ideas all over the place, and they are fun, they make fun games, they create fun experiences, so why don't I want to use them?
I think a start might be in an idea I hold dear to myself, a hold over from doing Survivor games for so long. I don't know if this idea is valid, or correct, or without exception, but I've been holding onto it for so long it's gonna take a lot to get it away from me haha.
Basically, in any game, if you lose, I think there should be a reason why you lost. You shouldn't just lose due to events completely out of your control.
I feel that is a cornerstone to a game that contains strategic actions. (it might not be a cornerstone, not sure) I feel like these games involve so much, so many cool people, that to take it away from someone for no reason, for some random choice, due to a decision it was impossible for them to even effect in some small way, is dumb.
And that statement is more far-reaching than you would think.
Okay so people get eliminated all the time in this game, and tons of times they might not have 'deserved' it in the proper sense. Who here thinks they deserved their Exile? Obviously it was all the other idiots being dumb!
Well, first I have no sympathy for people who are Exiled haha. (maybe the 1st ones. -_-) And by no sympathy I don't mean I don't feel bad for them cause I do, I just mean that I don't think they lost for no reason. If you were Exiled, obviously you were suspicious as a Spy to a large number of people. That means you lose, even if those people are all dumb. Or, maybe you were framed by a Spy. If so, they outwitted you, now you're gone. Maybe a stupid cit says he's a cop and you're a spy, okay, well defend yourself and then you should be fine.
The line for 'deserving of Imprisonment' is much more murky. In fact this whole Imprisonment thing is something I've been wrestling with so much even before Spies 1, it's something I can't ever quite feel comfortable with. Obviously there are situations which people deserve Imprisonment. If they reveal a role. If everyone thinks they are a citizen. If they are onto Spies. No problem with those.
But to me there is an element of randomness surrounding a lot of the Imprisonment choices, especially the early ones. It just seems to me that there are several possible choices to be made and not one is better than the other. (I suppose you could say this about Exiles as well.) I mean let's say at Imprisonment 3 there are 4-5 equal choices to kick out. Which goes? Can the Imprisonment-ees affect that decision when they don't even know they are being chosen?
I guess they could. You can always do little things to avoid being Imprisoned, as well as adopt a Imprisonment-averse playstyle. But maybe the thing that unsettles me is that naturally, the decision on who is Imprisoned is made by a small group. They have a very short time (typically 24 hours) in which all of them might not even talk to each other. They may be busy and just agree on whoever. One person might dominate the conversation.
Some of these things may be applied to someone who is Exiled but at least that is decided by a large number of people.
I've grappled a lot with Imprisonments. And I've learned a lot of surprising things. I guess I've eventually become sympathetic, if not completely comfortable with it.
Okay so Imprisonments are a tad iffy, what does that say about something like a vigilante? With a vigilante, one person eliminates one person. (usually a citizen who thinks someone is a spy) That's a pretty heavy thing. The idea here with Spies is if that you lose, it's cause a lot of people think you are a Spy, not because one person thinks you are a Spy. You could be killed for such flippant reasons. And there's really nothing you can do to stop it, because everyone needs to be suspected to avoid Imprisonment. You don't know it's coming and you don't even know it's in the game.
But a vigilante is so common in other mafia games, and yet for me it is (perhaps, actually I've been thinking about the vigilante lately so don't rule this out! as you may know i'm willing to try anything once.
questionable. And there are far, far worse things that hosts due in terms of unfairness to losing players than that. I'm not gonna list them but any time you see someone eliminated with little reason think about this. =)
So yeah, I got lots of good ideas nonetheless from this activity which is something I was really looking forward to! Tons of new ideas. I would say more but I am going to use them so
.
But, out of the roles presented, the one I liked (that fit in Spies 6 considering all the other roles and already planned events, for example anything with "give extra votes or take away votes" was thrown out cause it'd mess up the Voting Shift twist so much) the Taskmaster stood out. I trimmed its hedges a little bit but I think it will be very entertaining and could have some interesting uses.
Good times!
I really like the concept of stealing someone's role from them. That's nasty. That's why I like it. Will be interesting to see who that happens to. I'm throwing on some restrictions to make it more fun.
Anyhoo I'll talk about that first I want to talk about the CYR (choose your role) idea process. I've had that idea for awhile, wanted to do it for Spies 5 but I think I forgot. Anyway it's a good idea because it entices applicants, gives people a tiny thing to do pre-game, gets interest, etc. And it's not too radical of an idea really.
It's also good for me for so many reasons which is why I wanted to do it haha. I'm running out of role ideas! Looking through this game I just kept coming up with idea after idea that I kept striking down. I ended up re-using a lot from Spies 5 and changing up some. Those were pretty good actually. So for one this replenishes the role well for me. And it did give me a lot of good ideas.
It also told me what some people like in roles and what they would like to have themselves. That's interesting cause roles are supposed to be fun so that tells me things.
So I want to talk about why I keep striking down so many role ideas, both my own and other people's. Time after time there are just so many properties to roles that I knock out for whatever reason. Actually I was going to list a bunch of them and a bunch of things I wouldn't do but that sure would reveal a bunch of future fake role claims wouldn't it haha?
That would be dumb of me. Sucks though cause I'd like to talk my mafia setup theory.So anyway why is it I strike down so many role ideas? I see tons of ideas all over the place, and they are fun, they make fun games, they create fun experiences, so why don't I want to use them?
I think a start might be in an idea I hold dear to myself, a hold over from doing Survivor games for so long. I don't know if this idea is valid, or correct, or without exception, but I've been holding onto it for so long it's gonna take a lot to get it away from me haha.
Basically, in any game, if you lose, I think there should be a reason why you lost. You shouldn't just lose due to events completely out of your control.
I feel that is a cornerstone to a game that contains strategic actions. (it might not be a cornerstone, not sure) I feel like these games involve so much, so many cool people, that to take it away from someone for no reason, for some random choice, due to a decision it was impossible for them to even effect in some small way, is dumb.
And that statement is more far-reaching than you would think.
Okay so people get eliminated all the time in this game, and tons of times they might not have 'deserved' it in the proper sense. Who here thinks they deserved their Exile? Obviously it was all the other idiots being dumb!
Well, first I have no sympathy for people who are Exiled haha. (maybe the 1st ones. -_-) And by no sympathy I don't mean I don't feel bad for them cause I do, I just mean that I don't think they lost for no reason. If you were Exiled, obviously you were suspicious as a Spy to a large number of people. That means you lose, even if those people are all dumb. Or, maybe you were framed by a Spy. If so, they outwitted you, now you're gone. Maybe a stupid cit says he's a cop and you're a spy, okay, well defend yourself and then you should be fine.
The line for 'deserving of Imprisonment' is much more murky. In fact this whole Imprisonment thing is something I've been wrestling with so much even before Spies 1, it's something I can't ever quite feel comfortable with. Obviously there are situations which people deserve Imprisonment. If they reveal a role. If everyone thinks they are a citizen. If they are onto Spies. No problem with those.
But to me there is an element of randomness surrounding a lot of the Imprisonment choices, especially the early ones. It just seems to me that there are several possible choices to be made and not one is better than the other. (I suppose you could say this about Exiles as well.) I mean let's say at Imprisonment 3 there are 4-5 equal choices to kick out. Which goes? Can the Imprisonment-ees affect that decision when they don't even know they are being chosen?
I guess they could. You can always do little things to avoid being Imprisoned, as well as adopt a Imprisonment-averse playstyle. But maybe the thing that unsettles me is that naturally, the decision on who is Imprisoned is made by a small group. They have a very short time (typically 24 hours) in which all of them might not even talk to each other. They may be busy and just agree on whoever. One person might dominate the conversation.
Some of these things may be applied to someone who is Exiled but at least that is decided by a large number of people.
I've grappled a lot with Imprisonments. And I've learned a lot of surprising things. I guess I've eventually become sympathetic, if not completely comfortable with it.
Okay so Imprisonments are a tad iffy, what does that say about something like a vigilante? With a vigilante, one person eliminates one person. (usually a citizen who thinks someone is a spy) That's a pretty heavy thing. The idea here with Spies is if that you lose, it's cause a lot of people think you are a Spy, not because one person thinks you are a Spy. You could be killed for such flippant reasons. And there's really nothing you can do to stop it, because everyone needs to be suspected to avoid Imprisonment. You don't know it's coming and you don't even know it's in the game.
But a vigilante is so common in other mafia games, and yet for me it is (perhaps, actually I've been thinking about the vigilante lately so don't rule this out! as you may know i'm willing to try anything once.
questionable. And there are far, far worse things that hosts due in terms of unfairness to losing players than that. I'm not gonna list them but any time you see someone eliminated with little reason think about this. =)So yeah, I got lots of good ideas nonetheless from this activity which is something I was really looking forward to! Tons of new ideas. I would say more but I am going to use them so
.But, out of the roles presented, the one I liked (that fit in Spies 6 considering all the other roles and already planned events, for example anything with "give extra votes or take away votes" was thrown out cause it'd mess up the Voting Shift twist so much) the Taskmaster stood out. I trimmed its hedges a little bit but I think it will be very entertaining and could have some interesting uses.
Good times!
(Edit: forgot to add, I wondered once or twice if Sam had given one of my roles to someone else, especially as I officially "withdrew" the egoist suggestion before the time was up. I also thought it likely there was more than one role from the "CYOR" competition in play.)
Belle <3