I'm on the block now

[Iris]

Okay, guys, thanks to my last minute vote switch on Yvette I'm majorly in trouble now. I do have my allies (Levi, Mirela and Oswald). But I look really, really bad.

I won't go down without a role claim. I need y'all to help me think this out though.

My role is the anonymous benefactor. I have 3 gifts to give people in the game. I had to pick who to give them to before alignment was given out.

Gift one I picked someone who was dead.
Gift two I picked Donald or Jason...you guys will hopefully use your power then (or have already used it) and can verify what I'm saying.
Gift three will go to someone who's still playing who looks suspicious.

Help me think this out, attack flaws, etc. Thanks.

[Iris]

Oh, and I'm going to continue to go on the offensive with Amelia so if I go she looks better.

[Iris]

And I'm rethinking the Khaled for #4 imprisonment thing. That will only make me more suspicious.

[Donald]

We really need to discuss the roleclaim. I'm pretty sure Sam said NOBODY other than spies knew their role/alignment pre-game.

Also, when you claim anything, keep in consideration that all townie roles are now boosted. Your claim will be infinitely stronger if you keep this in mind when you do claim.

[Iris]

Thanks for the tip re the boost. I won't be claiming anything until I'm sure I'm near death. And that is good to know about Sam saying that. That part isn't necessary, because if I'm a Citizen there would still be uncertainty as to who I'm giving my gifts to. I can say I had to give them as soon as I got my role.

[Donald]

I think the role sounds interesting, and could be used, we should just modify it accordingly to make sure you don't say "I knew my role before the game started".

So yeah, having the deadline be maybe, Exile #1 might be good.


Also, giving a gift to Jason probably makes more sense, I'm guessing you've talked with him more than me? Technically, I don't think we've ever spoken together (outside our forums).

[Donald]

And I agree with not imprisoning Khaled.

He's very smart, very good with details, and is onto some of us, but doesn't carry much weight with the other players, and doesn't seem to have much of a presence, as compared to others.

He's a threat in terms of his skills, but in terms of getting us lynched, I don't think he's as big of a threat.

[Jason]

I think you'll be fine, actually, Iris. The monumental blowup after Yvette's exile heated up a LOT of citizens at one another and I have a feeling they're going to be going for each other's throats the next few rounds. And I still think Faith will go before you do; we can fight hard to make sure that's the case (and make sure that she doesn't go for a long time if we can manage it).
As long as you have the Faith buffer zone you should be ok. The good news is a LOT of unexpected people voted for Yvette at the last minute - we can nail them for it as hard as anyone nails you for it.

And I agree on the Khaled point, too, I think Gabriela will be a much better threat than him in the immediate future, and Mirela is about as bad as Mei Yun was only without the influence on the Burg, but if she gains influence she needs to go ASAP.

[Judge Sam]

Jun 2, 2009 22:08:43 GMT -5 Iris said:

I won't go down without a role claim. I need y'all to help me think this out though.

My role is the anonymous benefactor. I have 3 gifts to give people in the game. I had to pick who to give them to before alignment was given out.

Gift one I picked someone who was dead.
Gift two I picked Donald or Jason...you guys will hopefully use your power then (or have already used it) and can verify what I'm saying.
Gift three will go to someone who's still playing who looks suspicious.

Help me think this out, attack flaws, etc. Thanks.

My thoughts:

yeah you're going to need a "Role booster" from this last challenge. possibly an extra gift? or info on how they were used?


Okay so with the base role itself some little things. One I'm worried if you say a Spy (donald/jason) got a power from you, and then they lynch you and you're Spy, that would mean Jason/Donald lied for you to keep you safe right? Wouldn't that be really bad or am I missing something? lol.

If you wanted to claim a role where you gave gifts to people early on, I would say you had to give them either before:

1) the opening night chat
or
2) Exile #1

The "cute" part about this role would be that you had these powers, and you had to give them out to people based on first impressions. Your first impressions could affect the game 'drastically.'

And to add to the cuteness factor your gifts would be something like:

1) a powerful gift that helps the spies/cits whichever side gets it
2) a neutral gift
3) a negative gift that hurts the spies/cits whichever side gets it

or

1) a good gift that helps the citizens (if a spy got it, it'd be a lot less useful)
2) a gift that could help either the citizens or the spies it's neutral
3) a good gift that would help the spies (if a cit got it, it'd be a lot less useful)

hope that helps


edit: now the hard part is actually coming up with 3 believable gifts which is a whole other headache lol. those kinda have to be reasonable too.

[Jason]

Yeah that role sounds great, especially with the Sam touch which ensures that people are going to believe that it's a role he'd make... Gifts, though, that is going to be tricky, especially since nobody's going to come forward to say that they got one.

Perhaps you could say each gift can only be opened after a certain number of rounds? Like gift One is Round 4, Gift two is round 8, and gift 3 is Round 12? Or something... maybe 4/6/8 etc., and then you can claim to have given gifts to some of the dead people and nobody could really complain about that. I'm sure they would but it wouldn't be your 'fault'...

[Donald]

What Jason says is possible.

Giving a gift to Robert &/or Yvette works, because Day 1 you were buddy buddy with both of them.

Also, something to consider is if you had to distribute the gifts before the roles were given out, before the opening chat, you could say Jenya got one of your 'gifts'. She might interpret that to be her protective role (and hopefully she wasn't lying when she told us she had one, that could be a HORRIBLE backfire, as bad as Jason or I receiving a gift, and Iris being lynched as a spy).

[Iris]

Thanks for the suggestions, Sam. I'm liking the Donald "silencing" me idea, which will give me one whole round to work on this.

Okay, I was thinking if I die and flip Spy, and Jason or Donald have been my "recipient," they're not lying for me, I just had this role but I was a Spy. If that doesn't work though we'll change it.

I do like the idea of giving a gift to Robert or Yvette. In fact, maybe that can help explain my Yvette flip flop, if it's Yvette...I panicked because I gave the most powerful gift to her that would have been very dangerous if she were a Spy?

Jason, I like your idea about the rounds. My only issue is that in my experience a role claim like this that has NO evidence for it, ie if I gave all my gifts to people who are already dead, is a big scum tell. That's why I'd like some way to "verify" it, either by having given a gift to you or Donald, or Jenya as Donald suggests.

What are the odds in this game of a Citizen lying about a role claim? I have only seen that once in my life in a Mafia game (and it backfired terribly on the person who did it).

[Donald]

Cits lying is a possibility.

One thing i suggest when/if you roleclaim, don't tell your LIVE targets. Obviously those players would become a target to the spies, and sharing that information openly would put them at risk. Hold it back for a little bit, maybe tell some people in private whom you trust.

The benefit with Jenya, is she's told enough people she has a role that she can't really hide it.

[Iris]

Okay, that's good to keep in mind. Then maybe I should go with the Jenya thing as "confirmation." That way if she's lying, well, she's lied to a lot of people already then, and it's my word against hers.

[Donald]

Claiming it to Jenya as opposed to myself or Jason would also keep us safe, should you die.

However, we technically do have roles we could prove...

But the safest bet is targetting Jenya, and 1-2 dead players. We'll have to discuss the third target more, between a live or dead person.

Also, I don't think we should tie Jason with you. Jason is the one spy we have that seems to have been in good standing with most players for most of the game. If we're going to risk anybody to help save you, it should NOT be Jason.

[Iris]

Yes, you're right about Jason, I had that thought too when I was upstairs showering, where I have all my best thoughts. I can't use you either upon thinking about it because as you pointed out in the other thread, your role is definitely Spyish. To confirm it you'd have to admit you silenced someone, which would look bad.

So I think one dead player, Jenya, and one player that's still alive but that we know will get voted off sooner but not too soon. We'll put the 3rd or 4th gifts far down in the game.

Another possibility is Rey. He was "immune" from Exile 3 and doesn't know why. This is a dangerous game because someone obviously gave him a protection and they'll know it wasn't me. However, I could say Rey but I won't tell him what the fit was because, as you said, it will make him a target of Spies.

I guess there's also the possibility that if I have to claim enough people will believe me where they will say don't tell the gifts for the players who are still alive because that would help the Spies.

Or maybe your plan to silence me will get the heat off me and it won't be necessary for a while.

[Jason]

So... You think about me in the shower?

j/k

As for using Rey, it's very risky but I think it could be work...

Truth be known it was ME who gave Rey Immunity... I told Jenya my Deflector role and told her to use her immunity on Levi and I'd deflect it to Rey for her, BUT... we didn't tell Rey that because I told Jenya I don't want anyone else to know I have a role and she's suspicious and paranoid of Rey anyway at this point (And she CAN'T tell him she gave him protection without explaining my role because her role doesn't allow her to use her ability on a person more than once)

So actually that might be perfect because we know for sure that the person who truly protected Rey isn't going to come tell him. At the same time, though, if he tells Jenya that someone claimed a role that protected him... we'll be in trouble.

[Donald]

Hmmm.. That's really interesting...

I don't know if we should use Rey or not. If we do, Jenya could counter that.

If we have to, we could do Yvette/Robert, Jenya, Jason.

Yvette/Robert are dead, and can't confirm/deny.
Jenya did get an awesome role, oh what a gift.
Jason got a pretty sweet role (and we can claim it'll redirect nightkills too. Why not? It probably does.)

As far as the boost goes, Iris's role is very unique, in that she gives everybody an ability in the beginning of the game, before anybody else really has a role. We may be able to show that she technically doesn't have a role anymore, as it's all used up, and thus doesn't benefit from the cit boost. We should clarify with Sam that such a case could be possible.

Also, if Iris gets exiled and revealed as a spy, we've been completely open and honest about Jason and Jenya, and they can prove their roles, and Rey is a perfect example. So I don't think the backfire will be that bad either.

[Jason]

Wow I like that line of thought, Donald. So basically Iris' gifts turned into some of the roles that we know we have out there, that would be impossible to deny. But, at the same time we'd have to handle that in a way that it isn't made public than Jenya and I actually have roles...

Maybe Iris could claim and then say who she gave the gifts too and I can talk to Jenya and say "Hmm... you think our roles are the gifts?!?" and we can just say, "Yeah we received gifts" and not say what they are.

The problem with that, though, is that I think people won't accept us not telling them what our gifts are and that could potentially get Jenya and I both exiled when we aren't Imprisoned for publicly having roles.
I'd really rather not publicly announce my role or any kind of special ability at all if I can help it because it could remove me from the position I've built myself into where I can get by without being Imprisoned without being suspicious and have an ally whom I've 'confirmed' myself to that would defend me in a tight jam at an Exile.

[Donald]

Yeah, I'd strongly suggest Iris not coming out with who she has given roles to. And we have a good argument, that we don't want to make targets for the spies, obv.

If it comes down to claiming names, she can tell you and Jenya privately that she's given each of you roles, you two could talk to each other, and after confirming Iris's claim as truth, start spreading the word to your trustees that Iris is telling the truth, and as long as you make sure they don't leak that you have a role, don't let anybody know who doesn't already know, then we shouldn't have too much to worry about.

But if it comes to a lynching, I think it'll be much easier to lynch Jenya than you. She's said so many contradictory and suspicious things, I'm surprised nobody's made a case against her yet. Once she turns up cit, the suspicion on you will drop significantly.