Post by Judge Sam on May 23, 2009 17:32:08 GMT -5
The following is a complete transcript concerning the voting discussion from the union meeting.
"I have a question about this 'kicking people out of our union' stuff. So every so often we have a vote to kick out who we think are the labor spies within our union."
"Right."
"But why do we use the voting system we do?"
"What do you mean?"
"For example, why do we reveal who voted for who? Why not have a secret ballot?"
"Well, I mean, that just seems like the way it is..."
"Why do we take 3 days to decide who to vote? What if we did it in just an evening?"
"Cause that's what Boss McNeal said we had to do."
"There are so many different ways we could vote. We could require a majority vote. We could appoint five people in a council to make for more reasoned discussion. We could cast votes on who we thought was trustworthy instead of who we thought was a labor spy.
And it's not just that... there are many different voting systems out there besides first past the post. There's like fifteen different ways we could cast votes! There's the bucklin method, IRV, approval voting, range voting, and block voting just to name a few.
Why is this very important decision - who to Exile - decided by rules put into place by McNeal and his management cronies? This is important! We should do it differently!"
"Well now that I think about it... that sounds like a good idea."
*the crowd in the meeting voices their approval*
"Let's do it. We'll try out a new voting system and see how that works - if it does we can test out many different ways of voting to figure out the best one."
*everyone cheers at their victory over the Bosses*
"So uh.. alright, a new voting system... so which one should we do first?"
"Well you know, one thing I don't like about this whole Exile out people thing is how negative it is."
"Negative?"
"Yeah you pick out the person who you think is a scumbag. You're accusing someone of being a bold-faced liar and a lackey of the enemy. None of us really know what's going on, it could be anyone... and this just factors in who we think is a liar and doesn't include at all who we think is telling the truth."
"Well, we are trying to catch Spies you know."
"True but think about it this way. All of us are voting who we think is the phony. But what if a bunch of people think that person has integrity and is telling the truth? There's nothing you can do to voice that.
Imagine that Carl is getting a lot of votes because people think he is a Spy. From like 40% of the group. Then imagine that a lot of people, say 50%, think Carl is an upstanding Citizen and speaking his mind with sincerity. There's more people who think Carl is a Citizen than ones that think Carl is a Spy. But all these people - the ones that like Carl - may not agree who is the real Spy. They could have all these different opinions on different people. But if they don't band together, if they don't all talk with one another to come up with exactly one person they all vote for - Carl's a goner. He's gonna get the most votes. The one who they trust is kicked outta here.
In order to save Carl, someone who they think is a Citizen, they have to cast their vote under false pretenses. They have to manipulate their own intentions and cast a vote for someone who they don't think is the biggest suspect, just because it's someone the others can agree on. Because these people think Carl is a Citizen, it benefits them to come together and all vote on someone - anyone - who they think is more suspicious than Carl even if it's just by a little bit."
"That's true. I've never thought of it that way before. That could really affect how we come to a decision."
"It's true, and it does. So I propose a different voting system. One that you can vote for people to save as well as vote for people to Exile..."
"I have a question about this 'kicking people out of our union' stuff. So every so often we have a vote to kick out who we think are the labor spies within our union."
"Right."
"But why do we use the voting system we do?"
"What do you mean?"
"For example, why do we reveal who voted for who? Why not have a secret ballot?"
"Well, I mean, that just seems like the way it is..."
"Why do we take 3 days to decide who to vote? What if we did it in just an evening?"
"Cause that's what Boss McNeal said we had to do."
"There are so many different ways we could vote. We could require a majority vote. We could appoint five people in a council to make for more reasoned discussion. We could cast votes on who we thought was trustworthy instead of who we thought was a labor spy.
And it's not just that... there are many different voting systems out there besides first past the post. There's like fifteen different ways we could cast votes! There's the bucklin method, IRV, approval voting, range voting, and block voting just to name a few.
Why is this very important decision - who to Exile - decided by rules put into place by McNeal and his management cronies? This is important! We should do it differently!"
"Well now that I think about it... that sounds like a good idea."
*the crowd in the meeting voices their approval*
"Let's do it. We'll try out a new voting system and see how that works - if it does we can test out many different ways of voting to figure out the best one."
*everyone cheers at their victory over the Bosses*
"So uh.. alright, a new voting system... so which one should we do first?"
"Well you know, one thing I don't like about this whole Exile out people thing is how negative it is."
"Negative?"
"Yeah you pick out the person who you think is a scumbag. You're accusing someone of being a bold-faced liar and a lackey of the enemy. None of us really know what's going on, it could be anyone... and this just factors in who we think is a liar and doesn't include at all who we think is telling the truth."
"Well, we are trying to catch Spies you know."
"True but think about it this way. All of us are voting who we think is the phony. But what if a bunch of people think that person has integrity and is telling the truth? There's nothing you can do to voice that.
Imagine that Carl is getting a lot of votes because people think he is a Spy. From like 40% of the group. Then imagine that a lot of people, say 50%, think Carl is an upstanding Citizen and speaking his mind with sincerity. There's more people who think Carl is a Citizen than ones that think Carl is a Spy. But all these people - the ones that like Carl - may not agree who is the real Spy. They could have all these different opinions on different people. But if they don't band together, if they don't all talk with one another to come up with exactly one person they all vote for - Carl's a goner. He's gonna get the most votes. The one who they trust is kicked outta here.
In order to save Carl, someone who they think is a Citizen, they have to cast their vote under false pretenses. They have to manipulate their own intentions and cast a vote for someone who they don't think is the biggest suspect, just because it's someone the others can agree on. Because these people think Carl is a Citizen, it benefits them to come together and all vote on someone - anyone - who they think is more suspicious than Carl even if it's just by a little bit."
"That's true. I've never thought of it that way before. That could really affect how we come to a decision."
"It's true, and it does. So I propose a different voting system. One that you can vote for people to save as well as vote for people to Exile..."
